out of curiosity, shivakoti vaneko kun caste ma parcha, like , chhetri, bahun or newar or neither of them...


good day ahead

kumai bhaneko kasto bahun ho hajur, maile chai uphadhaya ra jaisi matra suneko chu...

Now a days we can not tell a person by family name which cast it is because it is shared by many others. I like it.
In past any family name suffix by Koti used to be Brahmin.

shivakoti ta dalit ho i think damai or kami

Just like the Bahuns you have known, Kumais may also be Uphadhaya, Jaisi or even Kshetri. They were originally from Kumaon region and thus got this name of their clan. However, there is a false and derogatory definition of 'kumai' (not suitable to mention here) also very popular among non-Kumais. That is one of the reasons why Kumai are considered inferior by non-Kumais. Shivakotis are Kumais for sure.

I think Kumai were very smarter than the others, that is the reason of hate. Most of them did not participated in pujaa aajaa and other bramin pushed them away from practicing it.
But they were engaged government job, there is a saying " kumaaiko Ghumaai"

Think how smart they were and are.

येसो विचार गर्दा पौडल कन्या र शिवाकोटी पुरुषको एकदम जुरेको छ है ;) कुरा चलाए हुन्छ \

अनि शिवाकोटी उपाध्याय , जैसी , छेत्री [Nalapani जी ले सायद 'खत्री' भन्नु हुन्छ ;)] जे पनि हुन सक्छ , पुरानो चलन अनुसार | नत्र भए गोर्खे ब्रो ले भने जस्तो आजकल जसले पनि लेख्छ surname को रुपमा \ मलाई पनि यो चलन मन पर्छ \ तर मैले देखेको छु कतिपय मान्छे लाइ एस्तो मन पर्दैन - तिनलाई सुझाब : आफु बाहुन, छेत्री, ठकुरी, नेवार भनेर चिनाउने मन छ भने surname को पछाडी थपे कसैले रोक्दैन \ जस्तै राम प्रसाद शिवाकोटी बाहुन (वा ब्रामण ), हरि बहादुर बस्नेत छेत्री आदि \

ba/aamalai sodhnu yasta kura budha pakalai thaha hunchha sathi!

मेरो बिचारमा ब्राम्हण जाति एकै थियो | यिनीहरुमा राजनीति सुरु भएको हुनु पर्छ र एकले अर्कोलाई होच्याउन आफ्नो कमाइ बढाउँन नया नया कुरा निकाल्दै गए |
मुतुनो चलाएर तल्लो जात बाट बच्चा जन्माए आफ्नो थर दिएर बाउ को हो चिनिन्छ भनि खत्री बनाइ दिए , कहिँ kC पनि लेख्छन |
यी कुजाती विद्वानले आफ्नै बर्णलाइ पुरी गिरि भारती आदि लाइ जैसी ब्राम्हण हैन बाउन बनाए | ब्राम्हण भन्ना माथिल्लो तह जनाउछ रे तेसैले जैसी जति जैसी बाहुन रे ( जैसी ब्राम्हण भनिदैन रे ) |
जाठा छेत्री हरुमा पनि झर्रा ( बस्नेत , बोहोरा , थापा ) र बाहुनले मुतुनो चलाएर बनाएका छेत्री ( भट्टराई , अधिकारि आदि इत्यादि ) | सबै भन्दा रेसिस्ट जातिमा बाहुन नै हुन् : यिनले नै ल्याएको हो जात पात | बेदमा जात पात को कहा कुरा गरेको छ : काम अनुसार टाउको पाखुरा जिउ र खुट्टा का कुरा गरेका हुन् |

भन्नु होला त चै के कम छस | जातले पाएको हो , हाम्रो दिमागमा धर्म भनेको नै छैन | दान दक्षिणा चढाएर धर्म र स्वर्ग पुग्ने कुरा लेखेर उता मान्छे मरेर घर परिवार लाइ शोख छ हामि भने सुन चढाउ र यो चढाउ स्वर्ग पुर्याउने बाटो बनाई दिन्छौ भनि भेटि मै जोड दिन्छौ |
तेसैले मेरो भनाइमा हामि कट्टर जातिमा पर्छौ |

Haha gorkhe you are right. The irony is child as a result of union between a bahun man and, say, sherpa woman becomes chhetri. How that kid is chhetri is beyond me; that kid should either be bahun or sherpa or bherpa. If mom is chhetri the kid is khatri, understandable to some extent, at least (s)he is half chhetri. Barnashram ko utpati bhaeko bharat ma pani yasto hudaina.

Bahun le aafno genetic purity (Biology says cross-bred are better) rakhna lai chhetri ko chaupat gareko chha. That should stop.

If i am not wrong there was actually a Rana constitution or Shah constitution that dictated how Jaat were dropped if married outside of the clan.

Thakuris the royals - these could mary anyone and never dropped their casts, The real chetris like thapa, basnet, and such....and then bigreko bahun haru chetri lol ( same last name as the chetris but were dropped for marrying another cast...very hillarious if you really think about all these variations.

Now someone with the last name of Bhujel explained this to me.

Here are the derivatives of Bahuns and Chetries.

Pure Upadhhe bahun - the one who can perform karma kanda
Kumai Bahun - Bahun who is also a bahun but will not perform karma kanda
Jaisi bahun - Derivative of upadhhe bahun, father married a widow or eloped a wife without kanyadaan. Bahun who did not follow all the bahun rules.

Chetri - Offspring of Bahun and lower
Khatri Chetri KC - Offspring Chetri and lower
Gharti chetri GC - Offspring of KC and lower
Bhujel - Offspring of GC and lower

( all of the bahun and chetri derivatives are then grouped with GOTRA - same GOTRA is another big NO NO for marriages, if that complexity was not enough for you : ) ( interesting and hillarious) at the same time.


then there are other pure bred janajati like gurung, magars, tharus, newars,,,,i do not know the derivatives of these.

You are all over the place Sidster. I may not be very knowledgeable about bahuns but I know shit about chhetris. Chhetris are not "jharera baneko" from bahun. "Chetri - Offspring of Bahun and lower Khatri Chetri KC - Offspring Chetri and lower Gharti chetri GC - Offspring of KC and lower Bhujel - Offspring of GC and lower "

nalapani..i am not trying to be an expert here....just sharing what i heard...i am not claiming the FACTs. You are free to think yourself as a better expert as i am not.

To me, Jaat paat theories are like farts, it has many variations, flavors, humidity, and the sound. You can listen what one picks to defend but at the end it should end with a good laughter thats all.

Sorry Sidster bro if I sounded rude. I am not expert either. I just pointed out what is true. I can't care less about jaatpaat, for me it's the fabrication of con-men. I am not a turd to champions castism. :)

तेरी मा बापी सह उर्फ बिहारी स्वीपेर

तेरी आमा कामि ,तेरो बाउ दामई

तेरी मा डामना, जात मा expert हुन खोज्दो रहेछ तलाई त् मुजी हरियो बास मा तूऊ पर्दै लान पर्ने .

गेडा खा बंगुर को

Nalapani has clearly explained everything. I vividly remember the exact same definitions told by my grand-relatives. Most (all?) of these terminologies explained by Nalapani can easily be verified in Brihat Nepali Shabdakosh.

keto man pare khurukka bihe gara na ho, ke ko nautanki

मेरो बिचारमा ठकुरी भनेर आफुलाई माथिल्लो बनाउन मिचा खान आदि इत्यादिका परिवार राज परवार भए पछि नया क्लान को सुरुवात भएको हो ठकुरी छेत्री | यी ठकुरी हरुको बानि बेहोरा देखि चालचलन सबै मगर संग मिल्छ अनि अनुहार पनि | फुपू चेला मामा चेली मा बिबाह हुन्छ अरु छेत्रीले ब्राम्हण जस्तै पुस्ता र सगोत्री बिबाह गर्नु हुन् भन्छन |
पातकी बाहुन हरुले आफुलाई सबै भन्दा माथि राखे |

उखान छ नि चित पनि मेरै पट पनि मेरै | जाठा हरुले संक्रित्मा उखान ठोकी दिए पछि सबै ठिक |
बिहे भोज चली रहेको बेला एउटा कालो कुकुर छिरेर भोज नै बिग्रिने देखे पछी ए उटाले फ्लाक्यो " काली कुत्तिम अति उत्तिम , खैरी कुत्तिम कथैचबम ........ " अनि भोज जारि भएको थियो रे ?
यि हुन् हाम्रा पूर्वज | No body could can beat in past. No one is beating them in present and not happening in future. They preserve them so well and looks like it will last for ever unless all the cast blend together . To be blended it may take over 300-500 years with our present  attitude and temperament.

@NALAPANI

where are the Khas people of Karnali then? They have distinctly similar surnames as the rest of Chhetri like Raut, Bista, Basnet, etc. but they till now call themselves as Khas and generally desperate them from the Chhetri.

Also, I have heard a few DC, what are they?

"मेरो बिचारमा ठकुरी भनेर आफुलाई माथिल्लो बनाउन मिचा खान आदि इत्यादिका परिवार राज परवार भए पछि नया क्लान को सुरुवात भएको हो ठकुरी छेत्री | यी ठकुरी हरुको बानि बेहोरा देखि चालचलन सबै मगर संग मिल्छ अनि अनुहार पनि | फुपू चेला मामा चेली मा बिबाह हुन्छ अरु छेत्रीले ब्राम्हण जस्तै पुस्ता र सगोत्री बिबाह गर्नु हुन् भन्छन |
पातकी बाहुन हरुले आफुलाई सबै भन्दा माथि राखे |"

@ rajesh, i second the opinions of nalapani. the khas from gandaki region and eastwards have been hinduised thoroughly and spread out after the disintregation of khas empire post 12-13th century. and the khas of karnali also took hinduistic rituals but they still follow their shamanistic dewali,masto and kulpuja traditions. the khas eastwards of bheri river dont do that generally and are culturally more and more getting closer to indian high caste rituals.

@ magorkhe, thakuri may have been a ruler post as mahat, rai or subba .there are some thakuris who look aryan and some clearly look mongoloid.since west of kali there were also other petty kingdoms called 12 thakurai and in indian mainland too there were thakurs who were petty chieftans .the thakuris of gandaki region are either magar or mix of khas and magar and their religious and cultural proximity to both these big ethnicities made them easy to combine their forces and go on for unification.
पातकी बाहुन हरुले आफुलाई सबै भन्दा माथि राखे |...-pre-rana regime ,the social fabric of nepal was not like that we imagine today . caste system as concieved in indian heartland never existed in nepal, it was peculiarly nepali in our hills.but thats not our topic today