I just visited The Nepal Digest ( www.thenepaldigest.org) site after a very long time, and found out -- much to my dismay -- that it has ceased publication as of last March.

The parting editorial implies that the editorial team quit over its supposed inability to implement free and fair editorial decisions, and hurls veild blame at other people (whoever they might be!)

My question: What happened, guys? Were the differences of opinion so great that
the publication had to, well, die out like this?

************

Likewise, sometime late last January, The NATION newsweekly in Kathmandu died out after the editors and the publishers had a falling out after only a few months together.

My question: Again, were the differences of opinion so great that the patrika had to be killed?

*********

My observation: While working in Nepal as a business advisor, one thing I noticed
again and again was this. That most business partnerships (among Nepalis), started
with great hopes among friends, eventually soured to bitterness . . . so much so
that people who were earlier friends had become sworn enemies by the time the
ashes cooled off from the corpses of their business.

********

My question: Are most of us Nepalis fundamentally incapable of working on a team that has people who hold different ideas from us?

Alternatively, when the going gets tough, is it easier for us to fight with one another than address the problems at hand so that at least minially amicable solution can be found?

******

My comment: Isn't it ironic that while we do everything nice and polite with one another to avoid conflicts and confrontations, our lives in Nepal and Nepali societies might well
be mired in unaddressed and simmering conflicts . . . ranging from that of the Maoists
to businesses gone sour?

oohi
ashu

Nepe,

Your PERSONAL conversation with Gautam-ji passes off as some sort of a pro-republican FACT with which you rejoice in public.

YET, YET and YET

you would dismiss Akhilesh's views just because they ran counter to your expectation.

Your odd self-selection of views (based on what's appealing to your own political sympathies) is what I found unscientific about your arguments despite your
claiming yourself to be a scientist.

Look, any scientist -- or for that matter, any economist -- worth his salt knows that interpreting statistics is a matter of BOTH science AND art.

I AGREE with you that the Q 26 could have been more neutrally phrased.

But I AM NOT SURE that given the options available (and given the results collected) -- and read this carefully -- the ultimate ANSWER would have moved SIGNIFICANTLY in your political direction.

That is why, I find your pouncing on the question to be simply a calculated ploy to exploit its narrow weakness WHILE ignoring the big picture. This is where I find your scientific "let me take a step back and look at the big picture" stance MISSING altogether, no doubt driven, as I suspect, by your POLITICAL considerations.

********

I did not say anything bout the student elections earlier because I did not have time to look at it carefully. I am not someone who throws his credentials around to make my point. Give me time, let me study the data, and then I will make my CAUTIOUS comments (based on evidence and NOT based on where my political sympathies lie!).

oohi
ashu

Ashu,

The original reference to Kul Chandra Gautam was to make a point about DYNAMIC approach versus STATIC approach to understand the political developments in Nepal. It had less to do with republicanism. However, I do appreciate the fact that Kul Chandra jee, unlike some of his peers and people like Ashu, is not in denial about growing voice for republicanism in Nepal. Kura tetti ho.

*** *** ***

I have not said anything about Akhilesh Upadhyay's personal "survey" he talks about in his article. Because there was really nothing to talk about. Firstly he is not presenting his findings in numbers and figures. Secondly, all he said was that certain classes of people are giving more benefit of doubt to the king than certain other class. That was not a spectacularly surprising finding for me to talk about.

And why are you talking about Akhilesh' survey anyway ? His is not backing, at least not explicitly, your recent claim (okay observation) that the majority of (okay more, whatever that means) Nepalis are following the King. Why Akhilesh, Akhilesh, Akhilesh, then ?

*** *** ***

Regarding AcNielsen survey, everything -the questionnaire, the interpretation of data and the conclusion- about REPUBLICANISM is questionable and, more interestingly, inconsistent with the findings of other polls.

The 5% republican group it reports, as Pramod Aryal speculated, most likely represented a fraction (fearless interviewees ) of the Maoists. It certainly do not represent "Democratic republicans" ? the group that boasts representing 90% of college going youth (Student Referendum 2004)

*** *** ***

And why are you pretending like you saw the result of the Student Referendum for the first time ? You have trashed it in Sajha countless of times, remember ?

*** *** ***

I am ready to talk more about AcNielsen survey. However, other stuffs are getiing boring. Write only if you have something new. Otherwise, I am probably not going to respond to them.

I had a chance to talk about AcNielsen survey with Deepak Thapa at the get-together at Anil's place. Deepak -who knows Sharma and Sen personally too- was suggesting a group discussion about it. I am all for it. The Google group "Nepal Democracy" (a non-anonymous discussion forum) might be the best place.

Nepe

विषय या प्रसगंले अर्को अर्थ नलागेमा, भविष्यको नेपालजीले आशु बुरोलाई पुग्दो उत्तर दिनुभेऽछ।
आशुजीले पनि सिक्नुपर्ने कुरा धेरै छन् के, मैले जस्तै।

Dada_giri bhai,

K ho Pramod ko kura ayepachhi ta thyakka Nepe jo ko samarthan
garya ho ki sachhikai Nepe ji ko kura man parya ho. Dada_giri bhai
lai pani Nepe ji ko Republican Idea sanga ta awasya pani mel khadain
hola ni.... Yadi ho bhane ma pani tyahi khema ma lagne bhaye,
loujja thokuwa lagayera bhanchhu. I am just kidding.

Puranai
GP-dai

हो नि दादा गिरी जि, मैले लेखेको तेतिकै हैन नि यार। राजाबादी हुनकि गणगन्त्रबादी, कमसकेकम अर्काको कुरा ता सुन्न सक्नु पर्छ। राम्रोलाई राम्रो र नराम्रोलाई नराम्रो भन्न त सक्नु पर्छ त्यस्तो बुद्दिजीबि हुँ भनेर गफ हाँक्नेले। एकोहोरो लागेको छ लागेको छ, एउटै कुरा १०० चोटी दोहो-याएको छ, नयाँ कुरा गर्न केहि जानेको छैन, बुद्दिजिवि हुँ भनेर गफ दिएको छ, हाडबार्डको प्रोफेसरलाई साथि भनेको छ, नेपालका प्रख्यात लेखकहरु उस्का अगाडि केहि हैनन् रे। कुन दिन ज्ञानेन्द्रसँग सँधैँ म डिनर गर्छु भनेर भन्न बेर छैन। अति हुन्छ नि यार। जन्मदै अर्काको खुट्टो तान्न जन्मे जस्तो। हामी राजनितिको संसर्गबाट छुट्टै बस्न खोज्ने मानिसलाई पनि रिस उठ्ने गरी लेख्छ भनेको।

उदाहरण यहि साझाबाट सुरु गरौँ। जहिले पनि १ जनाको पछाडि लम्पट कसेर लाग्छ। किन धेरै पछिको कुरा गर्ने, गत चैत्र/बैषाख तिर एउटा धागोमा M..P. जिसँग झगडा गरो। उस्को अंग्रेजी नबुझ्ने जति सबै ३ कक्षाका बच्चा रे। तेहि धागोमा Newuser ले राम्रो सल्लाह दिएको थियो, तेहि निउँ खोजेर झगडा गरो। खगेन्द्र सँग्रौला संबन्धी एउटा धागोमा Ok लाई नाना भाँति भन्यो। एउटा कुन धागोमा हो Ok ले राम्रै सँग ताजन दिएको थियो, तेहि निउँ झिकेर Ok लाई तँ यस्तो ईञ्जिनियर, उस्तो ईञ्जीनियर भनेर २० चोटी दोहो-यायो, जबकि Ok ले म ईञ्जिनियर हुँ भनेर कहिले पनि केहि धाक धक्कु लगाएको मैले कहिले पनि देखिन, यो साझामा। Poonte यानकि Anil दाईले आफ्नो नाम बताउँदा अनिल दाईलाई खुप ब्यांग्य गरेर सांसद हुने रे, के को अध्यक्ष हुने रे भनेर खुप खेदो खनो। अहिले Nepe को पछाडि टुप्पी कसेर लागेको छ। १००० चोटि भो होला "नेपेले आफूलाई बैज्ञानिक भन्छ" भनेर दोहो-याएको, जबकि नेपेले म वैज्ञानिक हुँ भनेर कहिले पनि धक्कु लाको मैले सुनेको छैन। बरु उ आफैँ चाहिँ अर्थतन्त्र र ब्यबस्थापनका खुब हावा गफ छाट्छ। सबै ठीक हैन, उ मात्र ठीक हो भनेर लेख्छ यार। हैन यो संसारमा "आसु" बाहेक कोही ठीक छैनन् त? हामी त अब कम पढेका, थोरै जानेका भयौँ रे, राम्रा मान्छे पनि छन् नि यार यो सन्सारमा। कस्तो देखि नसकेको होला? यस्तै मान्छेले हो देश बिगार्ने।

लेख्न त अरुले पनि लेख्छन्, नेपेले पनि लेख्छ, न्युयुजरले पनि लेख्छ तर यो हदैको नराम्रो कुरा मात्र लेख्ने मान्छे त मैले पहिलो पटक देखेँ यार। ल राजाबादी र गणतन्त्रबादीको बिचको कुरा हो भन्दा पनि Isolated freak र DC girl ले कस्तो राम्रो बिश्लेषण सहित कुरा राख्छन् । त्यो पो हो त तरिका सार्बजानीक ठाँउमा कुरा राख्ने। कुनै कुरामा पनि " यो ठीक हो है" कहिले पनि भन्दैन, उस्को आफ्नो बाहेक।

दु:खका साथ भन्नु परेको छ साथिहरु "यस्ता बुद्दिजिबिलाई त धिक्कार छ। नेपाल आमा गरीब भकि यस्तै सन्तानहरुले हो"

*अस्तु*

Nepe,

Let me put my cards on the table.

1) I have NO problem with your holding republican views, though I do think that so seduced are you by its abstract intellectual appeal that you seriously underestimate
its lack of emotional appeal to most Nepalis (given Nepal's particular history, ethnic diversity, long entrenched institutional mechanisms, geography and so on).

2) I think it is ridiculous that for someone like you so wedded to the idea of republicanism, you appear least inclined to put yourself in the line of fire by returning to Nepal and fighting it out to the finish. My question: Why be passionate about
something when your passion is so obviously goddamn impotent?

[After all, ten more years, Nepe, and you'll probably be over the average life-expectancy-limit of male Nepalis. And we have all seen how old fogies tend to make a mess of things in Nepal. :-)]

2) I do have a serious problem, just as I have problems with Khagendra Sangraula's attitude to his critics, when you start labeling others, ridiculing others and calling them names simply because they do NOT share your views or have other ideas.

Why can't you accept the fact there are hard-core republicans AND there are others who are not as wedded to republican views as you are, and there can be a forum for all live and talk?

On this forum, you have changed the rules of engagement . . . you have called me --Ashu --countless names; speculated about my career aspirations; suggested that my career is dependent on royalist sympathies, even turned my name into a FALSE adjective and have gone on and on.

My question: What gives you, Deepak Khadka, this goddamn moral superiority to judge other posters with such FALSE characterisations and FALSE evidence?

3) You have a habit of SELECTING and posting ONLY certain appealing-to-your-own-ideology information on Sajha. I have NO problem with that habit. My only concern is that you be intellectually honest and STOP calling yourself a scientist and just call yourself a political propagandist, which you are (given your communist background).

I say that because I have a much higher regard for science and scientific temperament than you seem to have. And so my request: Don't slur the name of science to lend credibility to your ideologically charged political views. It's not gonna work here.

4) Re: the AC Nielsen survey. Are the results of the survey the absolute truth? No. Could they be discussed? Yes. But again, what I found interesting was that while you would mercilessly pounce on one flawed question, you would STOP short of looking at the available options to that question to see how the answers played out anyway. If you read the answers, even if the question had been changed to something neutral, it's UNLIKELY that more than 50 per cent would THEN be sudden republicans.

5) Dristi is a leftish rag -- of any appeal only to those who already subscribe ot its views.
You know it. I know it. Let's not pretend otherwise and fool Sajha readers.

I do NOT have any faith in Dristi's reporting (and this is also based in my own personal experience when they once accused a Martin Chautari member -- Pratyoush Onta -- of embezzling funds when that had NOT been the case at all. Pratyoush, being Pratyoush, confronted the editor there and then, but the lying editor would neither produce the evidence nor apologize. Such were and are your Dristi's standards!!

I do have a higher faith in the AC Nielsen report, WHILE knowing that the poll, like all polls, give us ONLY A SNAPSHOT of people's thought at one point in time, and in the absence of further polls, that's the latest opinion polls we have to move the discussion forward.

As any statistician knows, it's better to have an opinion poll (even if it contains some flawed questions) than to strive for a FLAWLESS poll or have no polls at all.

And Nepe, unless you are in a position to commission a fresh new poll, attacking the methodology on minor technical points while IGNORING the bigger picture that the poll paints overall shows that like a true propagandist you'd do anything to have your say.

And Futurenepal, it was NOT me who made that comment about three-year-old not understanding my English. It was made by M.P. aka the Crown Prince (of Sajha).

oohi
ashu

आसु said:
------ STOP calling yourself a scientist ---

म गन्दै छु--- १००१

Futurenepal,

People who call themselves engineers and cannot produce evidence for the basis of their attacks against other people in PUBLIC do deserve to be told so (especially the target is me for no reason!).

And people who call themselves scientists and then engage in rabid partisanship (by selective citation of the available evidence) do deserve to be pointed out as such
in public.

And people who announce their fight for democracy in Nepal one year in advance
from the US deserve to be asked some sharp questions.

Any democrat will tell you that these are all fair and square matters in the
PUBLIC domain.

Look, I am NOT here to be Mr. Popular, and join some of you in singing "Kumbaya"
around some cyber-camp fire. I am NOT here to push for monarchy or for
republicanism. I am here to ask some questions, and hopefully challenge some
beliefs and assumptions -- in ana effort to make the firum lively.

oohi
ashu

I liked the idea analyzed by Ashu.

In Nepal,

When a journalist is killed or in risk by Maoist or RNA, the
Journalist's association launch a statement and program and
they are not worried when the victim is not a journalist.

When a LAWYER is killed or in risk by Maoist or RNA, the
LAWYER's association launch a statement and program and
they are not worried when the victim is not a LAWYER.

....
....the list goes on.

When an Ashu is killed or in risk by Maoist or RNA or Royal Move, the
ASHUs launch a statement and program denouncing the action and
they are not worried when the victim is not a Ashu.

Ashu's one posting in this thread or other one, where he said that
his position is not risked by King G's move, so he is not against the
Royal Move. I am sure Ashu will fire me very badly for writing this
posting.

Have fun.
eNepali

Ashu and Nepe,

I have enjoyed seeing you both at each other's throat all along - so CARRY ON SERGEANT MAJOR.

Reading this thread (an amateur visitor to Sajha though I am) has been a welcome panacea for my mood swings today - I have been having a BAD friggin' day today and this drab English weather adds to it! Excuse my French there.

On a parting note, I would be more than happy to jump in as a 'referee', in case you two chose to continue the 'intellecutal' battle with yet more fresh rounds. But for now, I had better get back to my cuppa - it's getting cold.

So, more confetti throwing please - whatever that means!

Sincereley,

RMAS Lahure

Sandhurts lahure,

I'm going to super busy very soon -- will be away for a month.
Meantime, let us all entertain one another, hoina ta?

Smile on, mate!

eNepali,

Unless the costs of King G's actions get unaffordable to most Nepalis in stark personal terms (a situation King G must be self-interested enough to avoid), you will see NO
mass protests against him on the streets of Kathmandu anytime soon no matter how loudly how US-based republicans shout and dance from the rooftops.

Let's get that clear.

I used my example ONLY as an illustration. My point was this: For most people in Nepal, political parties' RECENT corrupt acts and infightings are more vivid, believable and personally affecting than any alleged feudal system espoused by the monarchy in the last 250 years.

People respond NOT to abstract thoughts and lofty ideals, but to things they feel, see and hear vividly and to things that affects them personally.

Given this, the challenge ahead in the short-term for democrats like you and me is NOT to squander our energies by taking EXTREME positions (which are nothing but ideological fireworks) but to start by taking leadership, in our own smll ways, to craft credible, coherent, consistent, believeable and personally appealing stories about democracy
and then take those messages to the people -- knowing that peole ARE skeptical and then winning them over.

In other words, democracy suffers a tremendous PR crisis in Nepal, and as long as that is not addrressed, the King and the maoists are going to exploit that crisis to the last drop. That's why, taking extreme positions NOW will not help the very cause of democracy.

oohi
ashu

I see two groups of people here in sajha. First group is very open minded and questioning supported by logic and reasons, while the second group is closed minded and prejudiced.

It's interesting how the second group supports each other and tries to form a alliance, while the first group is mostly observing details and pointing out illogical, unreasonable and contradictary statements made here or in public.

When the 2nd group sees someone making a statement in conjunction with thier prejudices, they don't waste time in WAH WAH's, but as soon as they find out that someone's views are contrary to theirs, they form a multi pronged attacks. They start calling names and even make ill reference to a posters PARENTS when they feel they cannot sustain a reasonable debate. These people, since they are prejudiced to their bones think everyone else would be prejudiced to their bones as well. That is why, they catagorize anyone not of their prejudiced mentality as being oppositely prejudiced - whereas the sad fact is that they are just closed minded to recognize any open minded thinking.

The 1st group does not believe in forming alliance since they are only observing inconsistencies and mostly post things that they deem are inconsistent with logical and reasonable common understanding. They believe that it is limiting one's horizon to have a closed mind and will not be shut by the attacks of the closed minded.

The closed minded however fail to open at the urgings of the open minded.

The battle of the OPEN and CLOSED minded people continues...

The above poster seems to be the reincarnation of another poster who labels every critics of dictatorship as closed minded.
Couldn't you supply your own opinions about the subject of the ongoing debate TND/Republicanism instead of analysing the behaviours of other posters. No intentions to exchange verbal volleys with you though.

No point debating with the above poster ^^^^ who resorts to making ill reference to a poster's PARENTS when he cannot sustain a reasonable debate.

As I had mentioned they catagorize anyone not of their prejudiced mentality as being oppositely prejudiced - whereas the sad fact is that they are just closed minded to recognize any open minded thinkers who are merely observing details without taking any sides.

Ashu,

OMG, so many trump cards on the table, all against me. I concede. You won, Ashu.

As I said earlier, I am not going to lock my horns with you for silly debates.

However, I thank you for all the complements although I failed to recognize some of them.

Regarding AcNielsen survey, I am up for a serious academic debate on it. I think it has a lot of interesting flaws besides what I pointed out earlier. Some of these flaws are common in other surveys and polls conducted in Nepal as well. So I believe it's an interesting topic for discussion. But that for a more academic atmosphere.

*** ***

Thank you all for watching the show, for encouraging order and sanity and even offering refereeing service. I hope you all enjoyed as much as Ashu and I did.

Best
Nepe

Nepe,

To reiterate my lahure mantra:

CARRY ON SERGEANT MAJOR!

I remain,
Sir,
Your obedient audience

SAJHA signed

Sandhurst Lahure

What happened!

Prithivi Naryan Shah Happend,
Many years happened,
Rana sasan Happened,
Many Years happened,
Democracy happened,
Misreable happened, tears shed and blood flow happened.
Many years happened,
Then suddenly everlasting war happened!

Ashu, partnership is not only in decline over conservative and traditional world, but even in country where Democracy has flourished and many people are educated- which gives an entity a knowledge of colaborating with other people, sole proprieteiship is larger. (talking about U.S.A) Basicly its human nature! and its money, isnt it ?

What happened!

Prithivi Naryan Shah Happend,
Many years happened,
Rana sasan Happened,
Many Years happened,
Democracy happened,
Misreable happened, tears shed and blood flow happened.
Many years happened,
Then suddenly everlasting war happened!

Ashu, lack of great university kowledge again :P sorry had to say that!

Partnership is not only in decline over conservative and traditional world, but even in country where Democracy has flourished and many people are educated- which gives an entity a knowledge of colaborating with other people, sole proprieteiship is larger and working with much better potential. (talking about U.S.A) Simple as it can get, isnt it human nature?

I still think that this thread is illustrative of what probably happened to TND. Personality-driven organizational behavior driven by egomaniacal narcissists. I could be wrong, though. Dunno.

TND has STOPPED publication despite its loftily stated policies:

"The Nepal Digest is the first Nepali electronic magazine in the Internet. The Nepal Digest hopes to create a free and democratic electronic plaform -- free of all political views, free of cultural biasness, against prejudices and unjustness of all kinds."

Source:
-http://thenepaldigest.org/aboutus.htm

Compared to that, discussions of various political and whatever stripes go on and on Sajha.

Sure, some of these discussion do get heated and seem to go on and on (those with very fragile sensibilities do have a hard time appreciating Sajha for its freewheeling culture at times); but, lets be honest, things rarely get downright ugly here.

That, to me, is a CAUSE for celebration on Sajha, and the DIVERSITY of personalities posters bring to this forum is something worth celebrating additionally!!

At the end of the day, so what if opinionated people discuss, debate and sharply disagree with one another?

That's democracy at its sprawling best, isn't it?

oohi
ashu