Let’s suppose,
Israel gives away the acquired land to Palestine and Lebanon.
Let’s suppose,
India gives away Kashmir as a separate state.
Let’s suppose,
US stop exploiting the Arab Oil.

The biggest question, will it stop!!!!
Muslim Jihad against Jews?
Muslim Jihad against Hindus?
Muslim Jihad against Christians?

What many people don’t realize these days it is not the issue of Land, oil and historical exploitation anymore. It is the biggest religious propaganda and marketing in the misleading definition of Jihad.

Jihad for true Islam would be fight against the evil within but the true definition has been so much twisted and brain washed by Islamic fundamentalist that there is no point of return. This jihad is a deep rooted in the militant’s blood.

If that so our suppose comes true and the question arises will the Jihad stop? How can it stop when anyone beside Muslim are enemy of the Muslim fundamentalist? How can terrorism flourish if there is peace? Will Al Qaeda stop attacking US? What happens to the billions invested in order for Muslim grand design?

What people need to realize is these Islamic fundamentalist are there for reason:
1] Fear of losing the ancient dictatorial way of life with western democracy
2] Fear of losing the religion extremism while assimilating in the universal religion

This is the case of self defense mechanism .Promotion of religious extremism in the name of religion.

What is the relation between a Pakistani giving life for freedom of Palestine?
(As if the life was so cheap)
What is the relation an African Muslim bombing some south Asian country?
(Which may be he never heard of: P)

Have we seen a Mauritius Hindu, coming to fight for Maoist?
Or have we seen a French Christian fighting along with US?

As much as we would like and hope there would be peace on earth. Peace is very far away in this grand design .Even if all the other religion bows down in front of Islam .Will the Islam have mercy on them?

What is the solution when the problem is religion??????--- spin your head!!!

BTW .. i was not supporting terrorism of US or Israel (in you defination ) in this post!!!

i was just pointing out there is more to it than just land and occupation..and yes many people think it is as easy as it sounds..but .. fact remains...it is not so easy!!!!!!!!!

"Let’s suppose,
Israel gives away the acquired land to Palestine and Lebanon.
Let’s suppose,
India gives away Kashmir as a separate state.
Let’s suppose,
US stop exploiting the Arab Oil.

The biggest question, will it stop!!!!
Muslim Jihad against Jews?
Muslim Jihad against Hindus?
Muslim Jihad against Christians?"

Perhaps not. What must follow is: R-E-S-P-E-C-T! Yes, in capitol, and in bold, RESPECT, for the lives, thoughts, inclinations, aspirations, and dreams of the Arabs. No, not for the minority Arabs' dreams to be fundamentalists, but for the majority Arabs' dreams to be free, to live as humans.

That said, yes, return of the Arab lands occupied by Israel would certainly go a long way towards a lasting peace.

Look deeper into history. Much, much deeper than what we general envisage when we think about Arabs and Jews, long before the 1967 Six-Day War, long before the 1948 war, and long, long before the mass migration of the European Jews to Palestine even started.

Up until the Zionist migration to Palestine started in the latter half of the 19th century, encouraged and promoted then by the British, and later by the US, Arabs and Jews lived PEACEFULLY side-by-side, as brothers, sisters, loving neighbors. It was the advent of such ill-advised migration of the European Jews to Palestine that triggered the animosity between the two groups. Many “original” Jews who inhabited the Arab land, mostly Orthodox, still hold a great deal of sympathy for the cause of free Palestine. They resented then, and some still do, the Zionist expansion into Palestine, primarily because it sowed the seeds of hatred and violence between their religion and what they had considered until then their beloved Muslims brothers. Check below the pictures of some Orthodox Jews protesting against Zionist aggression at a recent rally against Israeli actions in Lebanon in New York.

[Courtesy: http://samudaya.org/articles/archives/2006/07/rally_in_nyc_ag.php]

Personally, I believe the creation of Israel was plain wrong in the very first place. However, it is a de facto that cannot be changed now, and I respect the reality of an Israeli state. Nevertheless, Israeli government, and the West, particularly the US, can do much more to allay the source of Islamic fundamentalism by letting go of the occupied territories first, and begin to respect the rights of the Arabs within Israel to equal opportunity, education, health, and other social amenities. Israeli government must stop treating its Arab citizens on a second-class footing.

Of course, terrorism cannot be justified at any cost, on any level. But when military means are only exasperating the crisis, rather than resolve it, one must be open to other means to bring an end to such inhuman acts. And one can begin by carefully examining and coming to a true understanding of the root causes.

De-occupation of Arab lands, and a beginning of embracing of a new perspective of Arab lives will probably not bring peace overnight – decades-old animosity will not be easy to eradicate. But someone has to start somewhere. The responsibility lies primarily with the US and Israel. They can either continue to try to suppress the feelings and aspirations of the Arabs by the virtue of their so-called “War on Terror”; or they can begin to respect the lives and the rights of Arabs, so as to cut the source of fundamentalism. Fundamentalism is not an entity in itself – it is constantly fueled by utter dismay at the seemingly-unbreakable cycle of injustice and suppression.

Talking about fundamentalist dictators? Think about staunch Arab allies of the US: Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, along with other smaller principalities in the Gulf.

Finally, ImI, change the title if you can. Be original. Unoriginal title suggests to me that your thoughts are likewise.

One more:

Exactly Poonte, US and Israel must stop treating Arabs as sub-human.

Imi- Your diatribe is replete with misinformation, misrepresenatation and misinterpretation of history. I have neither the time nor the inclination to respond to u now.

I like your thoughts poonte..you have much better understanding.

and you admit that yes it would help but not eradicate the muslim fundamentalist and thier jihad..

we all hope peace but what i presented was also hard not impossible..i think they need to compromise.Israel and palestines .lebanese should live peacefully .There should be peace on earth.

p.s : don't judge book by its cover..title has nothing to do with me and my thoughts resemblance .actually most of the issue i don't agree with bill oreilly..it has just started so ..title shouldn't have a problem:)

"Personally, I believe the creation of Israel was plain wrong in the very first place."
Wow, Poonte Da, quite strong words.
Am I hearing " The whole holocaust thing is fake." in near future in Sajha?????

Rein..
hahahahaha..misinformation...misinterpretation..
was just giving you example .. that things can be twisted where ever you want just like you made palestinain cause more heavier!!!!

the root problem now remain no longer land ..may be it used to be ..but now ..put this in your brain..it is just not land , oil!!!!this is war of tradition and culture and religion..

hope for the best .. even if they give up land ... peace is distant dream!!

p.s: don't get into standard..just friendly suggestions:)..i know what i am talking and in what basis.I don't say i didn't like the points you made because i am not ignorant.I am quite impressed.So, its upto you..

First of all, Tisa, try not to create a divergence towards something I have not even given a slightest hints to, let alone clearly suggest.

Second, yes, I stand by what you have quoted from me.

Think: Carving up of Arab land, solely as per the wishes and plans of the colonial powers, who have absolutely NADA, ZIT idea about the culture, traditions, geo-political realities of the land being carved...I find it utterly incomprehensible.

Israel was created, in my opinion, to appease the Jews, who had undergone an unfathomable sufferings during WW II. This apparently, could have been an attempt by the West to cleanse their guilt of not being able to protect them properly. That is all fine.

However, to do so with utter disregard to the consequences, utter disregard to the feelings of the original inhabitants to the land to be carved up is TOTAL non-sense. The Arabs were not even consulted, let alone their thoughts considered, whent he West decided that the Jewish country, Israel, would be created in what was then in totality, including what is now Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, simply Palestine.

That was wrong. However, as I have already suggested, though, that what happened took place more than half a century ago, and the existence of Israel is a reality we all must accept. I do too.

Did you know that before Israel was created, Uganda was aleading the list of destinations, as per the "smart ideas" of the colonial powers, as a new home for the Jews? This suggests how random, thoughtless, and insensible were the ideas of colonial masters.

Poonte said:

Think: Carving up of Arab land, solely as per the wishes and plans of the colonial powers, who have absolutely NADA, ZIT idea about the culture, traditions, geo-political realities of the land being carved...I find it utterly incomprehensible.


Hmm... This brings to my mind what Bush said just few weeks before invading Iraq. One of the military generals said that Iraq has two large sects of Muslim- sunnis and shiites. Bush said " Oh really? I thought all iraqis are muslims". No wonder we are seeing the sectarian violence that has killed more than 50,000 people since US inaved Iraq.

We know that the US has a history of occupation starting from the time the land itself was taken over from the original inhabitants the Red Indians. Lots of Red indians were massacred during the initial phase of the occupation.

I agree with Poonte on this

"RESPECT, for the lives, thoughts, inclinations, aspirations, and dreams of the Arabs. No, not for the minority Arabs' dreams to be fundamentalists, but for the majority Arabs' dreams to be free, to live as humans."

Respect for lives is lacking in the US policies thesedays.

One of the reasons why some (I am saying some only) Israeli Jewish hate Albert Einstein.

Einstein once turned down the presidency of Israel and he told Moggot, her daugther

" If I were to be president, sometimes I would have to tell the Israeli people things they would not like to hear"
A. Einstein

Some of his thoughts on israel:

" The attitude we adop toward the Arab minoity will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people."
A. Einstein


" Should we be not able to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with Arabs,then we have learned absolutely nothing during our 2,000 years of suffering and desrve all that will come to us."
A. Einstein

Yes , I know that the British tried to creat a Jewish Nation in Uganda and the Zionist Organization rejected the idea saying that "Eretz Israel " was a promised land with Jerusalem and their holy temple which now includes a wailing wall.
And the British Government sold the parcels to land to Jews to creat Israel when The Middle East was occupied by them at that time.There was no counrty as they have today.
Normally I do not advocate of the policy of Israel in the middle East but the world should give credit to the Jews for their contribution to the mankind and making Israel the only democratic nation in the Middle East.

HOW EASY IT IS FOR PEOPLE TO POINT FINGER AT DEMORACTIC NATIONS!!!

POINT FINGER AT THE ATTITUDE OF THE ARAB NATIONS AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU FINGER WOULD BE CHOPPED OFF!!!!

this is what i call difference .. get it!!!

It's one of the nicest threads I have ever read. Great inputs. Thanx all

All the problem we see in Gulf Country started after 2nd world war. Oil was founded in Gulf at the end of 1st world war. People started realizing the importance of oil after 2nd world war. So, I was just trying to connect all these things.

I was wondering...... let's say suddenly it happens that None of the Gulf Country can produce Oil....or....Scientists find a cheap and efficient alternative to Oil, so that there is no need of Oil from now onwards. What will happen to all the politics going on within these Gulf Countries?? (looks hypothetical :D)

Any Idea, Please??

Don't worry.This will happen in our life time.
Watch out for Vinod Khosla.

1. Israel has the most meticulously crafted constituency to avoid Arab majority in the Knesset.

2. It bars any non-Jew to hold the post of the Prime Minitser

3. It has abused the naturally segregated Arab-Jewish neighborhoods to provide more and better for the Jewish neighborhoods, in terms of almost all social amenities. Water, schools, electricity, etc., are far from being equally funded as those in Jewish neighborhoods.

4. Arabs and Jews convicted of similar crimes get different levels of punishments.

5. It has refused to annex the occupied Gaza and the West Bank precisely because it doesn't want Arab majority in Israel.

6. Most notably, as exemplified in recent weeks, it uses random and disproportionate force to quell any threats, with utter disregard for the lives of the innocent, non-fundamentalist Arabs.

Perhaps if Israel was as democratic as the US and itself likes to claim, we would have less of the problem with Islamic fundamentalism.

Again, this is not an attempt to justify Islamic fundamentalism, but in order to put an end to the latter, we must first recognize the fact that Israel is not as democratic as they would like to portray themselves.

Poonte .. very good job pointing what happens in ISRAEL..
Now,
Do we even have to have law in ARAB to do that??Or they are living in different world?

CAMO,
What this thread is was about was JIHAD..
for u r question what if the oil wasn't there?

For that answer.. wasn't there so much blood spilled in the name of jihad before oil was found!!!that is middle east . the culture of violence.

This is war of culture, war of religion, war of generations, war of civilization!!!!!

Not war of land , Not war for oil...things do not exactly appear in people eyes because this is underlying truth!!!!!

ImI,

Try not to diverge. The focus here was on Israeli "democracy", and on what changes might be necessary in the ISRAELI realm in order to achieve a lasting peace in the Middle East. Or are you trying to justify one evil (that of Israel) by introducing another evil (that of Arabs)? "Wrong + wrong = right" theory would make the world spin around the cycle of violence forever. Same applies to those who justify terror created by Islamic fundamentalists citing Israeli attrocities.

Poonte .. didn't i say that good point pointing out israel demoracy.

i have always said this (wrong*wrong != right) this i have posted many times.
in many other threads.

look at the source:
where i have indicated , the muslim say ,their lands have been taken away so that is wrong (i said it) then bombing innocent civilians in the name of jihad ??how much right is it?this i have questioned many times..but peopel come here saying it is freedom fight.If that so then from point of view of jews ..it is mere drama for existence!!!

so ..i know what i am saying and i am not diverging .some one pointed out in this thread palestine point of view with help of literatures so in return i gave bunch of crap in other literature in favor Israel..which i being in the middle don't entirely believe in!

So .. i know where i stand..i am not taking in favor of israel.Do you deny the fact that Israel in recent years being good and compromising and i hope they give the acquired land in future ..So tell me how much violence has decreased???shouldn't it have helped a bit..?????

I think we are all diverging as a whole..the thead is about JIHAD not only Isreal..there are thousands other problems with land,oil...it is about JIHAD of muslim against others as a race in summation.

the reason i started this thread is to tell we all want peace on earth not only in isreal but it is not in the hands of US or Israel or INDIA now it is in hand of islamic terrorist..

Try to understand thier core agenda !!!!what is JIHAD All about.