Will  Prachanda prove to be another opportunistic politician and tone down his stance by refering to Gyane as "hazur". This is one of the times I am happy we have such fu'd up language with multiple forms of 'you'. I am reallyyy looking forward to this. I hope Prachanda addresses the king as tapai or timi. Haha poor Gyane is used to saying 'timi' to everyone. Will he bow down to the supreme leader and address him as 'tapai' or 'hazur'.



2. Nullification of old treaties with India
The maoists have demanded the previous governments to nullify old treaties with india. Will they even bring it up now that they are the majority? If not, only show their opportunistic mentality.

feel free to add more I am sure there are more things to look forward to

there are many ppl they use khaisyo gaisyo type of language what is so big deal about it. ... eventhough i dont talk like that... i always liked it!!!

and there is nothing wrong with aisyo khaisyo...   agreed with MadDog's comment about gracefulness and beauty of language to portray the mannerism...      (hehehe.. not terrorism)

Thanks coffee333............that is exactly what I mean.......SO in new Nepal I have to go back and start this whole new talk with my family and elders??........tapai and Timi.?? there is nothing wrong with that form of nepali language  but I dont think I can. ............and  for many people that might me natural way of family communication but For us that is apart of out life, our culture, the way I was taught and so will my kids learn to speak. ITS JUST A LANGUAGE LIKE ANY OTHER IN NEPAL only difference it is more artistic and full of high respect versed terminology. And we use it within family only too. if I had to speak to some one like a non family on the street I simply use.....tapailai kasto chha dai??/ versus If I meet an uncle after a long time Ill use ......Uncle Hajur lai Aaraamai chha??...see the difference.....To feel degrated for not using this language is just personal insecurity of who you are.........IT IS JUST A FORM OF LANGUAGE certain groups of nepal speak just a LANGUAGE.....never meant to harm anyones feelings..otherwise why would my parents teach me this if it were to create degration. They taught me because thats how all our relatives speak. They call URDU the worlds most beautiful language............Because they use AAP...instead of tum..............is that also wrong.....like someone demanding respect.???? well first sign of a commie rule is to snatch peoples right of freedom of speech. ........THINK.

Maddogg

Exactly, I use the words "hajur", "khaisyo" everyday when I speak to someone who is elder to me. I also know a lot of people in my friend circle who has started using this style of language as a sign of respect. More importantly, I have seen that people who we address these words to, feel happy and cared for. Another point I wanna to make is that... if Nepali language can have "tah", "timi", "tapai" as different forms of addressing people, what's so wrong with "Hajur"

MadDogg why are you making excuses for using the superiority ladden language brought into existence by the powerseeking devinity seeking rulers aka Mr 5 Grand King and family?

Your example of beauty as shown by the Urdu depiction of AAP instead of TUM is a feeble attempt at its best. In Nepali, AAP is replaced by tapai and TUM is replaced by timi.

It is understandable that we can't change things overnight. Those who were brought up and taught to use such feudalistic sycophantic language will not know any better and will attempt to bloat such practice with grandiose. And there is nothing wrong with that.

For those who speak that language have you gone outside the valley or the cities? As soon as you outstep the boundaries of feudalistic cities where the influence of royal highness 'bow to me' is at it's peak because of either direct or indirect influence, you never hear such grandiose language. Go to the village where most Nepalese live and you never hear your grandiose language requiring servitude right from the speech to bow to the royal's powers beheld by years of suppression.

It is especially unnerving when speakers of such feudalistic language have an air of superiority looking down upon others who speak the regular, majority accepted form of Nepali. These speaking thinks those who claim to eat "bhaat" are of less social stature than themselves who claim to jyunaar bhuja my ass.

If those who use the superlative forms do not have any sense of superiority complex because they use that language, then I have no issues with them. But they have to be aware that not everyone grows up using such feudalistic language and if they appear condescending to those that use the regular tapai and bhaat, then those suckers can suck my you know what.

Hajur is perfectly fine. In Nepali Byakaran (Grammar), the words used in addressing someone are classified in this way:

तँ, तिमी - निम्न आदारार्थी  (Ta, Timi - Less Respectable)
तपाई - आदारार्थी  (Tapai - Respectable)
हजुर - उच्च आदारार्थी (Hajur - highly Respectable)

Hajur is frequently used in Bhanubhakta's Ramayana and other old generation books. Baksyos is also used, but less frequently to address Monarchs and Royalties. However, Baksyos etc are derived and modified Persian words, that were imported by the Shah clan who had Iranian roots. There is a lot of similarity in the interior designing of the Persian, Moghuls and Shah palaces, arts, life style and some similarity in language. Shahs are Persian Muslims by roots after all. They came to Nepal with lots of money and might, took power and accustomed themselves with the local Hindu tradition. And even made the locals believe that they were the reincarnation of Bishnu Bhagwan. hahahaha

The courtiers had to address the royalties with Baksyos. They copied the words and used them at their home. Once upon a time a Monarch heard his courtier's family member address the courtier with a Baksyos. The king was not pleased. So since then, the courtier would address the king as gariBaksyos, sawari bhai Baksyos etc and the courtiers would address each other as garisiyo, gaisiyo etc. The courtier's neighbors  overheard it, found it posh and funny and some of them used it. Thus the words spread. I have seen some normal people use tapai/hajur before, and after accumulating some wealth and having a nice building, upgrade themselves to gaisiyo etc. This is called typical copying tactics of desperate Nepalis TCTDN. Although I smell sycophancy  in gaisiyo/khaisiyo words, I don't really hate those who use them. After all they are fellow  citizens.

Now lets send Gyanendra and co. back to Tehran to meet up with their jiju khanatis.

thx
Rohit

PS the above story has some twist and turns  but more or less true IMHO.

Prachanda will use        MAUSUF          because he have said he will remove king respectfully.

Rohitgrg thanks for analysis below

तँ, तिमी - निम्न आदारार्थी  (Ta, Timi - Less Respectable)
तपाई - आदारार्थी  (Tapai - Respectable)
हजुर - उच्च आदारार्थी (Hajur - highly Respectable)

We need to root out any systems that encourage segregation. We have deep rooted cast segregation to deal with and on top of that we have this language segregation by the use of which some family claim to be aristocratic.

no_quiero Posted on 04-22-08 4:45 AM     Reply | Notify Admin
	rachanda will use        MAUSUF          because he have said he will remove king respectfully.

Good One!

hahahaha.. when ycl's cadres beat the hell out of the doctors of new medical college located in biratnagar (i forgot the name) . Superman Prachand went to see those doctors at hospital and and sympathizes by saying that... Nimna sthar ko ycl ko karyakarta baat galti bhayo..
 Equality looks good in algebric or geometric equation... otherwise you are day dreaming.
Also i did not understand the trend that whoever use the term Feudalism.. they seem to think themselves more patriotic and revolutionary...  God help them!

mixing politics in language.. huh?? Communist cadres think they know A to Z of economy, culture, religion, .. and add whatever you want to add...    if being a communist makes everybody genius and if that is the only formula.. then looks like in new nepal.. everybody will be genius.. hence everybody will be equal too..

peace!

Ratobhaley...your self degartion and feeling of inferriority makes me feel sad and wonder why the jealousy of how families communicate made it so dam important to you. To impose how people shall speak is non of your business if one choose too. This language is older than your mind can comply and has been used and passed on for generations.  That is so racial to bring this type of hatred towards certail style of speech pattern which is simply very polite towards elders and respected ones in family and community. You seem very negetive towards certain class mannerism of how they gracefully endorse our nepali language with fine artistic politenesss and respect. On the other hand you call it feudalistic sycophantic language . When this kind of language mainly addressed within the family and friends circle. I think you are the kind who would feel like KING KONG if you just called Queen Elizabeth.........hey Liz whats up???....no need to call her your Highness.........I dont bow down to any or I dont respect anyone because I differ top use polite words that shines out ones character of politeness and respect. ITS WORDS AND HOW YOU EXPRESS THEM THAT MATTERS.......may be you have a good heart bro..........but you need that artistic touch to adderss it to your elders.....that doesnt make you small or inferrior..BUT AN ARTIST OF LANGUAGE.......because you know how to beautify your speech when you need to use it .....DIDTNT say you have to use it ...AGAIN IT ALL COMES DOWN TO CHOICE.....like i said in my earlier post......I speak timi tapai  & (ta ....with the closest of my friends and my pals) all the time ...........but when speaking with an elder in my family.....Its natural.............SO stop being such a bad sport and think of it as any other language spoken within families for respecting age ..................NO ONE has forced this language on you .....and will ever do. AND how you want to speak is fine with me ......dont judge the way I speak or categorize me if you believe we are all equal.

Prachanda's meeting with Gyane will be nothing but a request (thru mutual understanding) to step down. Prachanda will tell (but sounds like a request) Gyane to step down "gracefully" so they don't have to impose any kind of force and Gyane will have no choice but to do so.

(This came from a very "reliable" source.)

Maddog i know quite a few people and families who think people who say bhaat instead of bhuja is low class and pakhey. Thats the kind of people i have a problem with and they are using language segregation to filfil their need to feel superior. When the maoists decided that the royals were acting too superior and wannabe divine, they didnt feel inferior- they just wanted to show that the royals were not superior by any means. So dont wallow in your self conceived superiority by calling others inferior.

good, bad or alternative? this hajur/ tapai issue is taking a new form of idiocy in this thread. we are mercilessly attacking each other’s language choices as if the survival or the hope of new Nepal hangs in this language balance. few factors have been largely ignored in much of this debate. there are few aesthetic parameters to this layered language system; it’s a culture to some people and no one has the right to invade it. however, it definitely has some psyche in the whole society. all together, Palace cannot be considered as the dean of this whole language couture. the willingness of so called commoners to bring it into their family and follow generation after generation, is completely voluntary. so far, there is no instance of force or coercion observed in this regard. it was and is always the people’s choice.

besides, this is just the slim segment of segregation we are focusing on, ignoring rest of the other urgently required reforms. we all have participated and have different roles in caste and class systems in the country, be it supportive or critical, involved or removed.  why don’t we denounce our family names and embrace fully our first names which are always overshadowed by their second halves? this could be the first step towards the anti-caste system. let's be regular Ram, Shyam instead of Ram Karki or Shyam Sharki. that would contribute a lot in molding the new society.

our main concern should be five or six years away from now.here is one perspective: we have the opportunity to do anything as the first generation immigrant, and everything from us is acceptable.the language barrier is diffusing slowly with the rise of the middle class in the society. the classes are gradually coming together and the caste system is crossing boundaries. this will surely result in something more sanitized in terms of language and society. may be “hajur” will be followed by more less complicated verbs like “garnus” etc.

Yes, change definitely is on the way.  And, it’s time we wrap up this discussion neatly.

Bhaley, Its just a language and a form of respect and its been going on for generations.  Agreed on your point that for those who've tried to emulate the Royals, they ain't nothing but pozays.  But for those who've indeed lived their entire lives in Royalty or with them speaking in that tone and manner, I really don’t think they should stop using the dialect they've been using since time immemorial.  Their forefathers used it and so can they.  Its those who try to do it in this life-time who oughtta be shot point blank for trying to pose as something you're not.  And as you point out about Prachanday, that guy is a goddamn hypocrite and a jack-azz.  Why even take him seriously?  Just the fact that he is a communist living a capitalist play-boy's lifestyle, shows how low his level of thinking is.  Just let the damn fool bask in his glory for the time being as beating Gyane even more is futile than ever, bro.

Samsara et al

There are quite a few people and families who think people who say bhaat instead of bhuja is low class and pakhey. Thats the kind of people i have a problem with.

Thats all!

We use Bhaat Bhuja ....RICE whatever MAN whatsyour problem..........Ill speak anyform fo language I want and Will continue.................Just because some people consider them selves superior and uses that language and imposes it on others ...........doesnt mean Everyone does it. I dont go to my friends house where TAPAI is the respect and start using GARIBAKSYOS to show my superriority. I do it to my DAD, MOM and anyone who is older in our whole family circle.  I know what your problem is..............YOU FEEL INFERRIOR........................................just dont feel like that...........why do you feeel like that......????I know rest of nepal doesnt speak like that but all dialects has straight language and the respecting form.....SO DOES NEPALI.....................you dont have to tell me about who uses it ....how to use it..where to use it OR NOT TO USE IT ALL............because we will............and guess what.......I am a Mixed..... Thakuri and cheettry baun and Bhote(Lama)..........ANd we use this form of Language..where as all my relatives in Boudha .....speaks plain Tapai language......VS family in my Thakuri and chettey baun speak HAJUR........and guess what I am married to A Newar......of Jyapu caste.........And when I visit her family.....most even dont speak Neplali and I am learning Newar to impress them......MY family had no problem with our relation In fact.....three of my Thakuri cousins of RANA origins are married to Newars too and a couple of my cousins are married to Sherpa. Tibbetans and Gurung with no PROBLEM.and ONE of my relative is married to a THARU.......(still accepted. in the family)..we have a grand Dashain and great family parties............LANGUAGES LIKE TA ...TIMI< TAPAI HAJUR ARE THROWN ALL OVER without any hard feelings..everyone uses what is comfortable .....PEOPLE LIKE YOU CREATE PROBLEMS OF CASTE AND INFERIORITY......WE HAVE ONE UNIQUE FAMILY...........

MadDogg it humors me to see you barking here. You have posted for monarchy in many threads so it is not surprising that you want to protect the honor of your feudalistic lord and his ass kissin language. You have an innate inferiority complex that makes you wanna adore and kiss others asses. It shows by your constant tendency and need to be a royal chamcha. So let's not go around calling others inferior etc.

It's fine to use such language as long as you don't think that it makes you superior to others who don't use it. That's my point. Don't go ballastic on me now.

"There are quite a few people and families who think people who say bhaat instead of bhuja is low class and pakhey. Thats the kind of people i have a problem with."

Bhaley, amen to that!  Agreed 100% and if I see such people do that to me (since I say khana or bhaat), there'd be mucho damage to their skull and ego.  However, blaming Gyane for this is not the solution as hypocrites like Prachanday are the ones who I see at fault here.  After mercilessly killing 15K people, its a pity that he brings about this farce of trynna act like he still reveres and has admiration for the very cause his war (or his people's war) began.  BTW, in a society that is so deeply rooted within a class-heirarchy, it is only natural that the ones in the lower classes will emulate the ones above...Basic reasoning applies here.  Blame the Brahmanas of yore (today's bahuns have NO hand in this so there is no need for any hate) who took advantage of the whole situation by creating the Manusmriti and opressing the shudras and the non-jaats for centuries putting all blame on the monarch.

Lines from the Manusmriti:

Shudras are not allowed to own any property or livestock.  Whatever a Shudra owns is to be forcibly taken by the Brahman.

Even an old kshatriya must pay respect to the new-bron brahman as the brahman was created out of the Lord's mouth.

Even if a Shudra mistakenly hears the veds, molten lead should be poured into his ears.

If a Shudra recites the vedas, his tongue should be cut off.

If a shudra has mastered the vedas, his body is to be cut into pieces.

Samsara

I agree with you on most of the things and I have felt the same way about maoists like you do. If I was given a choice between the murdering extortionists and the king, I would have chosen the less worse being the king because for me people who don't value human lives should not be trusted with politics that could govern the fate of the entire nation!

Having said that, my lack of belief in the Maoists was challanged by my belief in democracy. In this election, I believe that the Maoist have won fairly. Obviously there are few places where they used scare tactics, but on the whole their victory, along with the fact that they even captured most seats from the valley, shows clearly that Maoists are the clear choise of the Nepali people. As in any democratic election, there are oppositions, but once the votes have spoken, it is the duty of any patriot who believes in democracy to support a democratically elected goverment and work with them for the development of the country.

Granted they had used doubtful means as in the killings in the past, but in thinking about it in the current framework, it may actually be a good choice for Nepal. We have seen how the country has plummetted under the Kings rule and the rule of the 7 party alliance. The situation has always grown from bad to worse without any hope of anything different. With the new Maoists ruling the government there is a certain chance and possibility that something good may come out of it.

Of course, we cannot forget the fact that part of the reason of King / 7 party alliance's failure was due to the Maoist insurgency as well.

All in all, the people of Nepal have spoken in the election, and they have chosen the Maoists to represent them. I think it would be undemocratic of us to still question the election and the will of the people. The maoists could have forced votes in few places, but not in places like the capital, which forces me to believe that a majority of Nepalis want them. So being a patriotic and democracy loving citizen, we have to support the the voice of the majority, yet provide a good source of opposition to questionable tactics along the way.

Read your words bro .......and read MINE.............I have explained many times over that ITS JUST A FREAKIN LANGUAGE...........AND I DO agree that some people have missused it..............and still are. There is no doubt bro. BUT for many its just another form of formality used within the family. OUR culture is to blame to create this barrior that this is a language spoken by the so called " UPPER CLASS" which I might be a part of.......BUT all people in that category arent bad and corrupt or feel they own everything......If you read me post.....OUR family accepted marriages from all castes with no problem......Most of our famlily beliefs and ways of are thinking very modern and believe that this caste system is WRONG...I believe that it is the worst thing to degrade another human being through class and caste and no longer should be practiced. BUT language spoken within families shouldnt be of anyones business to call it BAD because you dont speak it........do I mind if you dont know how to speak it NO.....I dont care........so as much as I agree with you that the CASTE SYSTEM SHOULD BE BANNED..............our language is just a form like any language. Thats all.........................we like others are still Nepalese and will always be.....SO together we can Ban this caste system and embrace everyone as NEPALESE.