Friends,

I am using this space for making a personal announcement that is very much a part of my Sajha life and which my well-wisher Sajha mates have been inquiring for several months already.

Well, my mini-novel Chaytna Nasakeko Chithiis finally published and a website dedicated to promote it is up and running.

- http://www.dkhadka.com/chithi

I have a long list of Sajhaites to thank. First and foremost, Echoes for an excellent web design and Shree for valuable guidance to web-illiterate person like me. Gokul-jee for a wonderful preface for the book which, let me give a preview, starts with the story of how it all started right here in Sajha some years ago.

I am donating the proceeds from the book to Help Nepal Network. And I have to thank Shirish for making that possible and helping me out in too many things.

I am also grateful to anonymous Sajha artists and models for their precious cooperation during my initial search for a design for the book.

Then all initial readers of the story for their encouragement and following up inquiries regarding its publication.

So, basically, in Sajha had my book it's birth pang and it would not have seen this day without Sajha.

I have been telling to all that Sajha has been a rewarding experience for me. This book is a living proof among many others I can produce.

Thank you Sajha mates ! Thank you Sajha !

Nepe

- http://www.dkhadka.com/chithi

There is no conflict between the discoveries of science, even in the modern technological world of today, and the ancient teachings of the Buddha. Buddhists agree that many things He taught about 2,500 years ago have actually been proven by science! The importance of the power of the mind, the impermanence of things — even breakthroughs that seemed incredible to science like the divisibility of the atom, the relativity of matter and energy and the structure of the universe were all taught by the Buddha even before science. A Buddhist does not ignore the facts that science teaches about mankind and the universe, but learns that modern thinking often has ancient roots.

Vishontar-jyu,

If you have to leave, you have to. I surely will miss and treasure this conversation.

I appreciate your time and effort to explain the things you have learned. I certainly understand what you have explained and agree with them to a large extent. And as for the things we disagree or understand differently, it should not make us uncomfortable. As they say, differences and diversity are to be accepted and celebrated.

Since this might be the last posting on this subject for now, I would like to recap my arguments above and clarify a thing or two.

I might have sounded, however, I was in no way glorifying "intelligence" and dismissing "discipline" IN GENERAL. We were talking about "learning" (not "enlightenment" yet) and I was more into a RIGOROUS estimation of RELATIVE contribution of these factor to 'learning'. RELATIVE is the key word. And that's all about my arguments.

Simply put, my argument was- for a GIVEN task of learning, NOT ALL individuals require the SAME LEVEL of "discipline", because "intelligence" is another variable. And this is a verifiable truth. However, that [truth] was not only the reason I was insisting on it. This has a very important practical implication that goes against what I would dare say Buddhist lifestyle. Simply put, the above argument implies that a UNIFORM LIFESTYLE for a DIVERSE POPULATION would be irrational. Now, it's not difficult to view how an argument against a 'uniform lifestyle' is also against the Buddhist lifestyle. I will not go beyond that on this.

If we talk about "enlightenment" instead of general "learning", Buddha's law might make better sense. But then, Buddha did not guarantee "enlightenment" to everybody. So to recommend Buddhist lifestyle for "enlightenment" would be a pure GAMBLING ;-) .

But seriously, the notion of "enlightenment" itself is problematic. I was hoping we will reach to this point in our discussion and will be able to talk about it in the way you define it. That did not materialize. Let's work with a limited and working definition of it for now, something like "an extra-ordinary power of knowing/sensing/understanding things". We can define it in unlimited way if we want. However, the limited definition alone will show how irrational that MIGHT sound from a scientific perspective.

First and foremost, why human brain HAS TO HAVE this POTENTIAL ? Why ? Has somebody designed it that way ? I hope you are getting where I am getting to.

Human brain came into existent quite recently through evolution of life which started some 3500 million years ago. Why does it have to have a potential of doing miraculous things ? There is no reason, no logic, no rationality for it's unlimited or super-power.

I will have to explain it a bit more, however, it makes sense to speculate that whoever has claimed "enlightenment" was actually "hallucinating". And hallucination only goes so far.

Let's leave "enlightenment" for now. Let's get back to what you described as the "Universal Law of Learning".

We have already discussed the content and I tried to show how it needs to be modified in order to make it accurate. Now, it makes sense for me to comment on the GRAND designation of "Universal Law". I understand (and I respect it too) how a faithful person can make such a grand claim. However, as a professional skeptic, I have, let's say, a professional obligation to register my disapproval :-)

So here I go. First of all, why "universal" ? Learning is not limited to human species. All living organism has to "learn". Only the level of complexity of "learning" depends on their evolutionary hierarchy. The component of "discipline" is not involved in other species.

Okay, let's limit the law to human only- "Universal Law of Human Learning".

Now the problem starts right there. Because human learning has components of it's predecessor species' "learning". That's where the basics are. Needless to say, that's not where Buddha looked to formulate the law.

So, let's recognize Buddha's limitation.

Now the notion of "Law". You (or Buddha) claimed that it is an unmodifiable law. We already discussed about it and I already pointed out the places where modification/accommodation is necessary to make it more accurate. Let me repeat some and add more.

"Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom" as a universal law of learning is imperfect in the following way.

First of all "awareness" and "wisdom" are not two different things. I mean their difference is artificial, not natural. Then, as I explained above, "discipline" is not universally required. Worse, Buddha defined "discipline" hardly relates to learning. The "rate determining step" in learning is "attention". 'Attention' does not come from Buddhist "discipline". It comes from (i) "attraction" to the subject, (ii) "will" to learn that. Distraction is a factor, but it is not limited to "bad" conduct. I mean, "good" and "neutral" conducts might distracts too. If something important to you is happening elsewhere, that distracts you.

See how many places there are to modify Buddha's "universal law of learning" ?

So, Vishontar-jyu, this is in no way to dismiss Buddha's preachings, but to show flaws/imperfections in them. No doubt that Buddha was a genius. However he was human. And human has limitations. Because we are not designed by a perfect designer. We are designed by an imperfect designer who cared only for survival and continuity of human race (natural selection). Everything else was byproduct of evolution. There is no rationality for natural byproducts to be perfect. No rationality at all. There is no rationality for Buddha's brain to be perfect. No rationality.

There is nothing wrong to be in imperfect. I can still revere the imperfect Buddha. He has done enough good things. That's good enough.

Nepe

You know what went wrong with this thread ?

Vishwontarji has to take a step back rather than trying impose lot of things he consider GOOD stuff that he might have understood. Same stuff may not be yet digestible to people like Nepe.

We should take this discussion all the way back and start from disucssing "Mind and Matter". Nepe ji has raised the issue where human brain (made of matter) can do miraculous job, and therefore brain is so powerful. It's true. But those all miraculous things that human can do is because of matters that make up the brain.

Nepe's question "First and foremost, why human brain HAS TO HAVE this POTENTIAL ? Why ? Has somebody designed it that way ? I hope you are getting where I am getting to. " Has somebody designed it? Is it answerable? All religions talk about supreme power/soul/God who designed it, of course without any proof. And based on such belief the religion has been operating.

Buddha faced all these issues, Buddha tried all available paths to reach enlightment at that time.

Therefore, what led him to develop Middle Path "Majjhima Nikaya"? We should be discussing from this point.

I know Nepe is jumping like a monkey. agreeing disgreeing many issues. But we need to do a research if we want to find the answer.

Anyways, I am laughing when Nepe's saying Hullicination is equal to Enlightment. The only difference between these two state of mind is that Hullucination is quite easy to gain, simply somke the weed or do drug like Shivaji. But Enlightment? No one knows what it is until you get it yourself.

Buddha never said that what he taught/said is absolute truth. He rather encouraged people to think argue improve on his teachings. That's the reason why now there are many mnay types of Buddhisms.

Do you guys know that Buddhism almost lost the ground when Nagarjun appeared (somewhat 500 years after Buddha) with his philosophy by which he could prove any thesis wrong. But in doing so, his own theory would not be proved right.. and that's why Nagarjun's philosophy crashed, and Buddha's teaching prevailed. Till today.

Err this reply comes late nepe ji. But according to "law" (which is something we all bind ourselves with), a binding contract occurs when there is offer, consideration, intention, acceptance, legality and capacity. You made the offer- to sell a book. I accepted the offer and communicated it in a manner u wanted me to- paypal. The consideration on your part was the good- and on my part was the cash. Was there an intention to create a binding contract? yes. And was it legal? of course- the medium paypal is a registered institution and as far as capacity is concerned, electronic business law states anybody who clicks the "i agree" or "ok" button accepts the contract and is deemed capabale of enforcing it also.

Thus the moment I sent u my money, I owned the book as per our contract.

And defaulting on our contract, the court would order you to hand me the book so that both parites (u and me) would be in our ideal state.

TT-jee,

You are a good arguer. And you are right.

And your arguments actually reinforced my point about importance of meticulous examination and accuracy I was making elsewhere. Thanks for your arguments.

*** *** ***

Karmarana-jee,

Here are some arguments on my part regarding limit or lack thereof our mind.

- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=24578

- http://www.sajha.com/archives/openthread.cfm?threadid=15437&dsn=sajhaarchive#21599

*** *** ***

For the fans of my khichadi of politics+shayari+music,

16th edition of "Weekly Shayari"

- http://www.dkhadka.com/chithi/sounds/Farak082706.mp3

Features two shers by myself, comments on "ceremonial monarchy" and the draft of the interim constitution. Musical finale: a Chinese folk orchestra music.

Nepe

माथिकै डिस्कसन कन्टिन्यू होला पछि मजाले पढौँला भनेर बसेको नेपे दाईले साप्ताहिक सायरी भनेर अंतिममा लेख्नुभएको बल्ल देखेँ।
कक्टेल सुनेर आनन्दित भएँ!
धन्यवाद्

FYI,

At the moment, my website is down. However, when it comes up, here is the latest edition of "Samayik Shayari".

- http://www.dkhadka.com/audio/17_Ghalib_HarQadam_090406.mp3
(Features latest political worries and Ghalib's wisdom. Musical finale: SaReGaMa by Prem Joshua.)

And I have given a new getup to my website. Has a more detailed archive of the old editions of "Weekly Shayari"


- http://www.dkhadka.com

FYI,

18th edition of the cocktail of politics, poetry and music, "Samayik Shayai"

audio: (20 MB)
- http://www.dkhadka.com/home/18_Kanak_091206.mp3



- http://www.dkhadka.com/home/18_Kanak_091206.htm

Nepe

View/Share this post only

Transcript:

- http://www.dkhadka.com/home/18_Kanak_091206.htm

Opps.. wrong url for audio. Here is the correct one..

- http://www.dkhadka.com/audio/18_Kanak_091206.mp3

HYYOOO AHYOOOO HATTI AHYYOO
HATTI AHYOO FUSSSA BHANYA YEHIII HO !!

Where the fug are all those bastards touting democracy and people's movement a yr ago ? Is this what we call DEMOCRACY ? WHAT THE FUG ? IS THIS WHAT ALL THOSE PEOPLE DIED FOR ? SO WE CAN HAVE THIS COMMIES RUNNING RAMPANT WITH LAWLESSNESS ?

YO FUGGING NEPE, SAYAMI, PARAMENDRA, POONTANG ETC ETC !! ALL OF YOU FUGGING PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT FOLKS !! WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO SAY ABOUT THIS MORONS ?

DOOOOUKWASSHI DOOOOUKWASHI IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN NEPAL.
BEFORE WE HAD CORRUPT POLITICIANS NOW WE HAVE COMMUNIST MOBS RUNNING THE COUNTRY. IF YOU DON'T GIVE THEM WHAT THEY WANT NEXT DAY YOUR BUSINESS IS TORCHED(happened to my family) !!

THIS IS NOT WHAT WE(NEPALI PEOPLE) HOPED THE FUTURE OF NEPAL WAS GOING TO BE. MORE AND MORE EDUCATED & QUALIFIED INTELEECTS, BUSINESSMEN, AND PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE ARE FLEEING THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THIS MOB MENTALITY.





HE WAY THESE FUGGERS ARE RUNNING THE COUNTRY IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THE CORRUPT POLITICIANS OR THE GUTLESS KING.
I THOUGHT THE MOVEMENT WAS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF NEPAL, BUT THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE AND WORSE EVERYDAY. ITS GETTING HARDER AND HARDER FOR AVERAGE NEPALI TO MAKE ENDS MEET. INTELLECTUAL PEOPLE THAT HAVE RESOURCES ARE FLEEING THE COUNTRY TO ESCAPE THIS MOB MENTALITY. THE FUGGING GOVERNMENT IS USELESS, THEY ARE JUST STADING BY THE SIDE WHILE ALL THIS TAMASAAA GOES ON.

I ASK THIS QUESTION TO NEPE AND POONTANG WHO WERE TWO OF THE MOST OUTSPOKEN SUPPORTERS OF THIS MOVEMENT LAST YEAR. WHAT THE FUG IS GOING ON MOTHER EFFERS ?

And NEPE is cashing in on his book sitting on his comfortable ass in the comforts of his living room. While average Nepali is having hard time putting food on the fugging table. SON OF A B*TCH !!

Bathroom coffee

With due respect, I would like to let you know that Nepe is NOT cashing on his book. He has donated all the revenue from the book to charity. He did that on his own without asked by any one.

You can differ with his political opinions but you are absolutely wrong on this CASHING thing.

Bhanna Payo Bhandaima Je Payo Tyo Bhanne ? Ali Hajam Bhayenai yo !

FYI,

Vijaya Dashami issue of "Samayik Shayari" featuring a ghazal by Dhirendra Premarshi,

- http://www.dkhadka.com/audio/19_Dhirendra_100206.mp3

Nepe
www.dkhadka.com

Full links:

Transcript:
- http://www.dkhadka.com/home/19_Dhirendra_100206.htm

Audio:
- http://www.dkhadka.com/audio/19_Dhirendra_100206.mp3

An old thread where I had posted Direndra's ghazal for the first time.

- http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openthreadall.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=23920#162216

FYI,

Belated 20th edition of "Samayik Shayari".

● Features a ghazal by Faiz Ahmad Faiz.

● Other attractions:
Comments on the postponed peace-talk. Where are we heading ?
Myth about Nepali communists

● Musical finale: Prem Joshua's "Daia"


Transcript:
- http://www.dkhadka.com/home/20_Faiz_101506.htm

Audio:
- http://www.dkhadka.com/audio/20_Faiz_101506.mp3


Nepe

Just for more and free publicity.

Highlights of the 20th Edition of "Samayik Shayari"

Faiz's shayari:

दस्त-ए-सैय्याद भी आजिज है कफ-ए-गुल्चीं भी
बु-ए-गुल ठहरी न बुल-बुल की जबाँ ठहरी है
(न ब्याधाको मुठ्ठीमा थुनिएको छ गीत जुरेलीको कतै
न फूल बेच्नेको अँजुलीमा बाँधिएको छ बास्ना चमेलीको कतै)

हम ने जो तर्ज-ए-फुगाँ की है कफस में इजाद
"फैज" गुलशन मे वो तर्ज-ए-बयाँ ठहरी है
(पिंजडामा हिजो पंछीहरुले क्रन्दन जुन शैलीमा रचे
आज बगैचामा त्यही शैलीको गायन लोकप्रिय जचे)

*** *** *** ***

Maoists do not have a PLAN to establish a totalitarian regime in Nepal.

...सबै कालखण्ड र मोडमा नेपाल शक्तिको मुद्धा प्रधान भएको र विचारको मुद्धा गौण भएको संभ्रान्त राजकिय द्वन्दबाट गुज्रिरहेको थियो ।

माओवादीहरुले, यसलाई विडम्बना नै भन्नुपर्छ, सशस्त्र विद्रोह शुरु गरेर, शक्ति र विचार दुवै प्रधान भएको नयाँ प्रकृतिको द्वन्द सृजना गरे । यत्ति हो, माओवादीहरुले साम्यवादी ध्वजा र साम्यवाद प्रदुषित rhetoric प्रयोग गरेकोले यो वैचारिक द्वन्दले अत्यन्त महंगो अन्योलता भोग्नुप-यो ।

माओवादीहरुको साम्यवादी ध्वजा र साम्यवाद प्रदुषित नारा उनिहरुको निरङ्कुश साम्यवादी सत्ता स्थापना गर्ने लक्ष्य र आत्मविश्वासबाट नभई उनिहरुको सांगठनिक विरासत, trade mark र मोलतोल उपयोगिताको लागि भएको वा हुन पुगेको हो भन्ने मेरो निस्कर्ष छ । र मेरो यो निस्कर्ष दुई प्रमाण/तर्क मा आधारित छ । एक प्रमाण त...

**** **** ****

On Maoist threat of "Urban uprising"

माओवादी "शहरी विद्रोह", जुन नहुने कुरामा म आशावादी छु, भयो भने त्यो एउटा दूर्भाग्य हुनेछ । पहिलो कुरो त माओवादीको, अन्ततोगत्वा, विजय हुनेछ । र अहिलेसम्म परिक्षण नभईसकेका माओवादीको mercy मा पुग्नेछ मुलुक । दोश्रो, जनआन्दोलनको अपमान हुनेछ यो । जनआन्दोलनले दिएको आदेश हो, सात दल र माओवादी partners भएर लोकतान्त्रिक गणतन्त्रको शान्तिपूर्ण संस्थागत विकास गर्नु । सातदल र माओवादीको मेलमिलाप र partnership हो जनआन्दोलनको आदेश । त्यो नहुनु एउटा विडम्बना र दूर्भाग्य नभए के हो त ?

तर मैले भने नि म आशावादी छु, शान्तिवार्ता सफल हुनेछ र सहमति गणतन्त्रकै पक्षमा हुनेछ । किनकी, जनआन्दोलन रोकिएको दिनदेखि यता यो 6 महिनामा भएका घटनाक्रम नियाल्ने हो भने यथास्थितिवादीका नाईके गिरिजा प्रसाद कोईरालाले जनआन्दोलन रोकिएको भोलिपल्टैदेखि थालेका हरेक राजतन्त्रप्रेमी तिकडमबाजीहरु कि त असफल हुदै गईरहेका छन्, कि त त्यसले रणनैतिक लाभ माओवादीलाई दिएको छ । आजको जनचेतना र शक्तिसन्तुलनलाई हेर्दा अबको तार्किक निकास भनेको, in order of probabilities, कि त गिरिजादिद्वारा गणतन्त्रप्रति आत्मसमर्पण, कि त दलहरुको नेतृत्वमा परिवर्तन र गणतन्त्रवादीहरुको आगमन (गगन थापा- नरहरि आचार्यले नेपाली कंग्रेस भित्र 'कु' गरेर नेतृत्व कब्जा गर्ने प्रकृतिको भनम् न ), नभए माओवादीको एकलौटी योजना र रजाईं हो ।

*** *** ***

Why is NC and allied un-republican intelligentsia for monarchy ?

कोईराला र केहि संभ्रान्त बुद्धिजीवीहरु किन राजतन्त्रको पक्षमा छन्, खास गरेर राजतन्त्रले अन्तिम सास लिईरहेको यो घडीमा पनि ?

जहासम्म म देख्न सक्छु, यसका व्यक्तिगत र वर्गिय दुवै पाटाहरु छन् । व्यक्तिगत पाटो स्पष्ट छ, यी महानुभावहरु आजसम्म आफु राजतन्त्रको पक्षमा उभिएको जुन व्यक्तिगत, पारिवारिक र दलगत ईतिहास छ, त्यसलाई कुनै न कुनै उपायले justify गर्न चाहन्छन् । Ceremonial monarchy यिनिहरुको पछिल्लो तिकडमवाजी हो ।

वर्गिय पाटो अलि जटिल छ । सबभन्दा पहिले त राजतन्त्र-प्रेम वर्गिय हो कि होईन ? जहासम्म म देख्छु, केहि सामान्य अपवाद छाडेर राजतन्त्रको वकालत गर्नेहरु सबै कि त शासक श्रेणीका (प्रमुख रुपमा क्षेत्री-बाहुन, नयाँ पुराना संभ्रान्त आदि) कि त आफुलाई शासक श्रेणीको हैसियतका देख्नेहरु छन् । त्यसैले राजतन्त्रको वकालत वर्गिय चरित्र नै हो । अब प्रश्न उठ्छ, राजतन्त्रले यो वर्गको कस्तो स्वार्थ पुरा गर्छ, अथवा गरिरहेको थियो भनम् न ?

यसको उत्तर यो वर्गले केहि वर्ष अघि सम्म राजतन्त्रको वकालत जे भनेर गरिरहेको थियो, त्यसैमा निहित छ । "नेपाली प्रजातन्त्रको जोर-खम्बा मध्ये एक", "राष्ट्रिय एकताको प्रतिक", "stabilizing factor", "अभिभावक" आदि आदि, सारांशमा, stabilizing factor.

कुरा के भने नेपालको परम्परागत शासक वर्ग के fantasy मा रमिरहेको थियो भने राजा भए पछिलाई यसको mystique र शक्तिको जादूले नेपाली समाजमा जस्तोसुकै उत्पिडनहरु रहिरहेको होस् परम्परागत शासकिय स्थायित्व भने खलबलिनेवाला छैन । धेरैमा एकदुई जना जनजातीका व्यक्तिहरुलाई मन्त्री-सन्त्री बनाईदियो, दलित सलित, महिला सहिलाहरुकोबारे बेलाबखत यसो patronizing कुरा ग-यो, "अलिक टाईमा लाग्छ, धैर्य गर्नु, education ले ढिलोचाडो सब भेदभाव हटाईहाल्छ नि" भनिदियो, बस खेल खत्तम । नेपालको परम्परागत शान्तिमा, नेपालीहरुको सहिष्णुतामा चीरकालसम्म कुनै खलल आउनेछैन । नेपालको परम्परागत शासक वर्गले आफ्नै हातबाट, आफुले भने जस्तो, आफ्नै खटनमा नेपालको पाँचै विकास क्षेत्र, पचहत्तरै विकास जिल्ला र चार हजारै विकास नगर नगर र विकास गाउँ गाउँमा विकास पु-याउन पाउनेछ । राजतन्त्र यस fantasy को आधारशिला थियो ।

More:
- http://www.dkhadka.com/home/20_Faiz_101506.htm

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You wrote:(promitional advertisement)
"...when I was completing this book, my thoughts were something like this: love is a condition achieved after losing self-consciousness about love itself. And for this reason, it cannot be achieved through a conscious endeavor. ...If it ever happens, it happens according to its own time, space, and circumstances. When one falls in love, he/she would not have awareness of it.....My exploration of love in this work is to show the eternal possibility that love holds of transitioning from one form to the other or of existing in a duality. "

I found a thoughtless(enlightened mind) on love this way. Go to this website
.
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/love.html

Are you talking about the same 'possibility of the the love' what J.Krishnamurti, Osho, Yogananda, Sivananda, Sufi, Swami Rama, Raman Maharshi, Buddha, Bibekananda...have talked about?

Yo Labastaro-jyu,

The excerpt is actually from the preface of the book. Anyway, it's refreshing to get back to the original topic. Thank you, also for the link to J. Krishnamurti's wonderful scrutiny on love.

It's obvious that I was meaning, as you so well put, a "thoughtless love", an "effortless love" described by J. Krishnamurti. However, my objective (in my book) was not to conform it. It was the opposite. I was testing (of course, fictionally) whether an "effortful love" can lead to "effortless love" or at least if they can exist in a duality. In that sense, I was scrutinizing J. Krishnamurti's notion of love. As for other philosophers' notions of love, I would not dare to compare. I am not talking about "compassionate love" or "divine love" at all. My love is raw, worldly, sensual, passionate, romantic and, most important of all, SELF-SERVING.

Hope that answers your query.

Thank you once again for bringing this up.

Nepe