I was watching this stand up comedy by Joan Rivers and she was brutally mocking few people in her routine. I found it funny but many people were offended. She then said later that there is no limit in comedy; you can make fun of everything. I wasn't so sure of that line though. I guess you can make fun of everything but you should also be prepared to bear the backlash of the reaction. Just as you have the freedom of speech to make fun of things, other people have the same freedom to criticize you for that.

I don't think comedy has no bounds; everything has bounds. There are things you just can't make fun of at a given time. Would you be laughing if you were in Boston, next to a victim and this guy makes a joke about double amputee?

Then there are people who go burn houses because they are "offended." They go against the very principle of the belief they are offended against.

What I wrote was not a fanatic response, just that I didn't find the piece humorous. Things that are sensitive to you might not be sensitive to me and vice versa. Do you then have to be on your guards all the time? Well, you have a choice; either be on guards or be ready for criticism. I think Behoove has proven that he is ready for the criticism and has taken it very well indeed.

Human society is based upon a set of beliefs. When I say beliefs, don't just think about religious ones. Incest love is not tolerated in our society, that's a belief. Cannibalism is not just illegal (is it?) but is also frowned upon morally, that's a belief. We all operate with sets of beliefs, some have more others have less. Who are we to judge that your belief is illogical and mine is logical? As long as your belief doesn't interfere mine, do whatever you want with it. Also, be prepared to hear back when you interfere others belief.

Behoove_me

I admire your writing skills be it your stories, analysis, articles, or comments. Moreover I consider you to be very intelligent and wise person not that I know you personally but only from your posts. From your previous posts and comments I think you can go overbroad in simple discussions like “What’s your favorite movie” or “Who will win super bowl?” so I am not surprise here. I think your mood swings were very high when you were writing this one because you are all over the place from Shiva to your sex life to GF in Nepal and USA. Only you can do it so skillfully. I might disagree with you in some cases but I enjoyed reading it honestly.

Though in the disclaimer you quoted “but only in jest” I find few things very insensitive. Insensitive not in terms that you have something against Shiva or his Johnson, because we all have enjoyed thousand of jokes about Shiva and his Johnson. Insensitive to the millions of people who believe in it including our parents, relatives, and thousands of people we know. If they believe in penis and find peace in it let it be. They are not sucking it just praying and it’s not even real (I mean biologically). I am not a believer I still feel that if you worship head or toe what’s wrong in worshiping penis, nobody should have problem with that, it is just a part of same body only different functions.  And what about “Infidelity” and how?  My English is not so good so I might be wrong about this one. I think you are trying to imply that if a person who watch porn or jerk off in shower is unfaithful to his GF or wife. Or maybe I didn’t get your point correctly. Having all said and done I still regard you as a good writer, keep on writing. 

Some people need to stop comparing apples and oranges. It is one thing to laugh about people doing weird practices but it's totally another thing to laugh at the misfortunes of others. Please do not make up odd ball impractical comparisions trying to make your point.

Behoove, if I had your writing skills, I would publish this in nepali media too because people out there need to think outside the box.

Rethink
Nobody compares apples to apples. What's the ffing point in comparing an apple to another apple? Comparison of apple and orange is done to point out the differences between those two fruits.

Everytime I make a comparison, those who don't agree with it, forward the apple and orange argument. Ofcourse, the things I am comparing are not identical, but I wouldn't be comparing them if they were identical..would I? Try to understand what the gist of comparison here is. The gist is about BELIEF. Behoove said we should mock uneducated beliefs, but my friend's belief was also uneducated (illogical is a better word) but yet I am not mocking it.

I guess the peter griffin in Behooveji wrote this piece. With great power comes great responsibility. Whereas i am all for humour, but not humour based on lies. There are things that are wrong with Hinduism but Shiva Linga is not one of them. Shiva Linga is not a penis. Some gurus and sadhus try to mix Science with religion which is ridiculous because religion is not Science. There is no Science in a shivalinga. Upon further reading into this subject, it seems missionaries were the ones to point out to Hindus that they were worshipping a penis.

Now this is what i call a fact based humour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0g2n5TXxRM&feature=player_embedded

Kiddo you said "There are things you just can't make fun of at a given time. Would you be laughing if you were in Boston, next to a victim and this guy makes a joke about double amputee?"

My point about apples and oranges was about the inappropriate example you gave. Would anyone ever be laughing at a victim or a double amputee? Obviously you would never make fun of people who are suffering. But that's not the same thing as joking about illogical practices around the world. Even the world news had a fair share of light moment when they shared news about Royal Nepal Airlines sacrificing goats to airplanes.

Did you find that inappropriate as well? I do understand your cautionary words but we do need to lighten up a little.

Rethink, I understand your sentiments. I am all for lightening up a bit; however, if I feel a sensitive subject is being mocked wildly, I do feel a need to express my feeling as well..much like the person who did the mocking, right?

The comparison you presented is an appropriate comparison, agreed. But what you failed to realize is comparison can be done on events as well as subject/object. I am not comparing events here, I am comparing the object of mockery: BELIEF.
I think I have said enough to clarify my post. If you still don't agree with my comparision, then I have nothing else to say.

Behoove, well said.

@ Behooveji,

no doubt you are a good writer and i admire your attempt at humour. A billion people worship the linga everyday (maybe) and even your relatives maybe. Our ancestors did. So by saying linga is a penis, you are really taking on all these people and their belief.

Which makes me curious. What made you think linga is a penis?. Is it because others said so?. Did you go on the shape?. Would you agree that IF shiva linga was not a penis, this whole piece you wrote would be out of place?. Sorry to be a pain, but doing my research, Shiva linga is not a penis. So i guess you have to prove it is a penis if you say it a penis. If you cannot prove it then i am afraid you are blindly believing that also, much like many others.

I do not mean to be irritating but saying shiva linga is a penis is making a historical and religious statement and it must be proven. If you have proof or others, do share please. 

Behoove, even I consider myself true devotee of Lord Shiva, I enjoyed your writing and it didn't hurt my feeling towards him. When I went to Pashupatinath or any other temple of Lord Shiva, I never thought or felt that I am worshipping his penis. Whenever I stood infront of shivalinga by the western gate of Pashupatinath I always imagined his face similar to what I used to see in posters or television.

But it is not necessary that all of us agree with Behoove's perspective... If Kiddo looks at things differently then he also has right to express his feelings..

And I like Kiddo's argument on the comparision of apple and oranges. I am not guru of English language like some of you but I think that people need to stop using this quote of comparing apples and oranges. You can make comparision between any two things. You just need to have same reference of comparision. If you are looking for vitamin and mineral contents of fruits you can make comparision among apple, orange, banana, grapes, mango ...or whatever fruit you like.  But if you are trying to find which species of apple will be the best to make apple juice then the comparison will be only between apples. 

I grew up thinking the shiva linga was a combination of penis entering vagina and I was fine by it because it represented source of all creation. I think there are new schools of thoughts on it too but I would not disregard the penis/vagina school of thought.

There is nothing wrong with worshipping the act of coitus. We are all results of that union and if we try to regard it as bad then ironically you are not respecting your roots :)

In the Shiva Puran, a book written about lord Shiva, says, ‘The linga of Shiva, cursed by the sages, fell on the earth and burnt everything before it like fire. Parvati took the form of a yoni and calmed it by holding the linga in her yoni’. The shiva linga seen in the first photo is the symbolic sculpture of that procedure. The religious pundits believe it to be the symbol of creation.

It is not only Pashupati Nath Temple that houses Shiva’s Linga. There are many other sexual sculptures in our temples. In fact, the sexual representation in our religious destinations are more than such books we can buy from the Nepali market (Ok, let me admit one thing here, this kind of book is some thing I don’t go for hunting and blue movies do not appeal to me either). There are few explanations on why such erotic images of gods and goddess in the temple like -to ward off the bad intentions in people; don’t make sense.
 

(In the photo above, a women stares at a realistic Shiva Linga for sale on the streets near Pashupanti Nath temple during Teej festival. Photo credits – izahorsky, from Flickr)

 

I always thought Linga (Lingam) meant Sexual orientation (purush or Stri)or sexual organ. Apparently, it has more meaning, look under Definition
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingam).

Geology put the point very eloquently; I don't know what's the big deal about comparing apple to oranges, and many times people who use this phrase constrain the meaning of comparison to one single entity. A comparison can be made on any attribute and the items being compared are often not identical..hence the purpose of comparison.

Behoove, It's unfortunate that we are discussing other matters than the literary aspect of your writing; but I am sure you understand where we are coming from.

I did start another thread to debate this but noone responded there. I hope Behooveji does not mind this. At the picture that Rethink bro has put above, we can see a linga that clearly looks like a penis. But Shiva Linga in temples do not resemble that at all. So i guess it is more of something like a "self fulfilling prophecy" in these modern times where even some Hindus seem to be convinced that it is a penis.  The word linga actually in this context simply refers to as a sign of Shiva. Even Lord Rama is worshipped in this form in a Ramalinga temple.

http://www.mulbagal.com/avanitemples.html

This debate started only less than a couple of hundred years ago when supposedly missionaries pointed to this fact. I am all for freedom of religion but it should not be based on lies. Many hindus are not aware of the penis linkage even to these days simply point out to the fact that they were not linked in the first place.

By the way why is a penis standing on a yoni, unless it is upside down.
 

Freedom the penis is not standing on a yoni. It's a penis that has penetrated the vagina. Do you remember putting your right hand index finger between the left hand index finger and thumb symblizing penetration?

As far as comparision and analogies go, I think it is important that they are contextual and I think anyone has the right to point something out if the comparision seems far fetched.

For example in this case, the story made fun of women who were worshipping the penis statue of shiva linga, and Kiddo comes in trying to even remotely connect this kind of making fun of something to making fun of victims of bombing with their limbs blown off.

Well, let's say that in my opinion, that's kind of far fetched comparision or analogy or whatever you call it and I am free to express my opinion. You are free to disagree with me.

If you go to pashupati and ask a babaji what shiva linga stands for, he will tell you the same thing about penis and yoni. But you have the option to go to wikipedia and believe what you want to believe

@ Rethink,

you contradict yourself. You gave us 2 images. The shiva linga that woman is looking at is clearly on a standing position. You can see the head clearly at the opposite end, unless you mean to say there is a head at each end. :) So surely there has been a mix up somewhere along the way.

This is why i talked about a "self fulfilling prophecy" before. I have done my research. Freedom of speech and opinion must be based on facts too. Pashupatinath baaje is more concerned about the money than facts so that would be the last person to ask the symbolic meaning of such stuff. One should do own research, especially such issues which are relevant to culture (or ex culture for some).

Sorry for sidetracking the story but as far as the symbolic meaning of shiva linga goes, it is believed that it's the erect penis penetrating the vagina. I know some pujaris from Pashupati who have been working there for generations and that's what they told me.

I haven't done much research but I would believe what they tell me about the shiva linga than anyone else.

It's ironic that people worship it but I think most people know it as the penis. I think that is common knowledge. I am surprised that many educated people of sajha have reservations about it.

@rethink, I think it's best that I agree with you and say I didn't make the right comparison, lets leave it at that.