Senseless, these types of goofing will lead to nowhere.

Poonte What tyranical absolutism is the King involved in ? News of making noise ? what like a publicity stunt ? Hah you talk about freedom of exprssion and brand everyone that disagrees with you as a mouth peice for the king or something other. Well poonte you have to give time for things to work out. ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN ONE DAY......
Most of these places where the atrocities are taking place ..hehe it will probably take 4months just to mobilize the army ..forget defending. Being Nepali you should know better instead of just running your mouth. The landscape of Nepal is such that we were having problems building highways ...and we are talking about a whole army here along with supply lines for support. Besides ..Nepal army is not used to combat like now. When was the last time we were in war ? Put everything into perpective then argue.

Tyo Chauu na Pucchar khaaali kara cha jhadaaa lageko muukh justo pyar pyar pyar

Nuts just hold on to your one pack cause if thats gone then BYE BYE BABY heh heh

Poonte said Ye, Chitwan ma po bhaako, hai? KTM Valley bhittra ta hoina ni! Jhandai birsi ra!
Poonte what you mean Chitwan ko chai manchhe haina ra. You don't need to get excited here.

Paani,

Regardless of what side one might take on critical issues that face our country, I think it would only do us both well if we refrain from lies, distortions, etc, to promote our respective ideas.

A LIE FROM YOU:

I have never asked ANYONE who opposes me to shut up. We are all free to indulge in discussions, and just becasue I may disagree with you and others who support the king does not imply that I have asked my opponents to shut up. Rather, for the sake of strenthening my arguments, by the token of KingG, whom you seem to have a lot of faith in, could you try not voicing your opinion because you differ with me? Try it. Just once. Let me know how it feels, and that might explain how many maybe feeling when they are subjected to jail, torture, or, in some extreme cases, "disappearances," when choosing to oppose the King.

Now, you may say some political detainees are being released and that the press is freer than it was during the first week of past Febraury. Well, SOME good news cannot attest to the humanity on the part of the King in TOTALITY. For one thing, Nepali people are not some "ghar-paaluwa bheda-baakhras" of the King that they should be contented with gradual allowance of their basic, fundamental rights by their "master" (KingG).

A DISTORTION BY YOU:

I wrote:

"This much, we did well -- you and others, including the government's official mouth pieces like the Gorkhapattra, were forced to pick up on the news of us making noise."

I have refered only to GORKHAPATTRA as one of the "official mouth pieces" of the present government. Not you, or anyone else. Please refrain from distorting what your opponents may have written just for the sake of conveniently downplaying them.

Finally, I am glad that you at least admit to the weakness of the RNA and it's present inability to reign in the Maoists. Without further military aid from abroad, ill knowledge of human rights, and worsening human situations on the grounds, which inevitably fuels the insurgency, I do not see any prospects of RNA becoming any better at tackling the Maoists.

Himalaya178,

Thank you for further proving my point! ;)

I will play the "devil's advocate" and say it's too simplistic to blame the Maoists for this reprehensible act. Sure the Maoists are violent savages but the RNA fares no better. In fact, the RNA is responsible for more civilian deaths than the Maoists during this 10-year long insurgency [this is not my opinion but the opinions of independent observers]. You will find interesting anecdotes on the RNA?s savagery from Kalikot district in Manjushree Thapa's Book "Forget Kathmandu".

As far as I know, the Maoists tend to deliberately kill innocent civilians in a "political context" i.e if they (1) disobey bands [remember blowing up of trucks and tankers] (2) pass information on Maoists whereabouts [happens all the time in villages across Nepal] (3) are known for being "samantis" [like Padit Pokhrel] (4) are government appointees [such as Bhagwan Das Shrestha] (5) refuse Maoists extortions. Today's act does not fit any of those criteria. I don't see any political context there and the Maoists don't score any points from such heinous act. If Maoists are in fact responsible, it is possible, as an Indian analyst pointed out in a BBC interview today, that they were targeting military vehicles but hit the bus accidentally BUT I THINK IS VERY UNLIKELY. The Maoists are more sophisticated than that.

This act has to be seen in the political context. At this hour, Girija chor is in New Delhi sucking up to Man Mohan Singh and Chandra Sekhar. Dim-witted Bam Dev Gautam has also arrived there after bluffing Nepali CIDs carrying a mandate from the lefties. And the savage called Babu Ram Bhattarai reportedly has been transported there by the RAW. There are rumors flying around that the Maoists and the political parties are negotiating to form an alliance with India's blessing to unseat the feudal monarch. The monarchists are genuinely worried about that possibility. If the right-wing elements in Nepal follow this logic, they have every reason to create a schism between the Maoists and the parties WHAT IS A BETTER WAY THAN TO BLOW UP A BUS FULL OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS AND BLAME THE MAOISTS.

Such evil act won't be out of the ordinary for the current regime in Kathmandu. Remember when a Gulf newspaper first reported about Babu Ram and Krishna Prasad Mahara's sojourn in New Delhi, the RNA quickly released a tape about Prachanda blaming Babu Ram for being India?s lackey - that was intended to create a schism between the Maoists and India but instead backfired because Indian security establishment was pissed off with RNA. Also remember, today is couple of days after the 4th anniversary of the PALACE incident. People in Nepal still think that it was Gyane behind it. IF GYANE CAN KILL THE ENTIRE FAMILY OF HIS BROTHERS TO ADVANCE HIS POWERS, IT WON'T BE SURPRISING IF HE BLEW UP A BUS FULL OF INNOCENT NEPALESE TO ACHIEVE THE SAME GOAL.

The only way to find the truth is through an unfettered, independent investigation. In Nepal's context that's very very unlikely.

Gaule Hero - Very interesting reasoning. By the same measure, could this not be the act of some fringe elements within the Maoists who don't like the current pow-pow with the parties and want to derail the process?

Captain Haddock ji -
It is possible that fringe elements within the Maoist movement could have carried out the heinous act in order to preclude the possible rapprochement between the Maoists and the parties. However I assume the likelihood of that to be low given my understanding of "high" discipline within the Maoists movement. Since Prachanda has publicly given blessings to Babu Ram?s New Delhi initiative mainly because his side-kick Mahara is towing/shadowing his every move, there does not appear to be any major schism within the movement at this time. Of course, I could be wrong in my analysis.

POONTE,
LIE FROM ME ? for what ? Do you even know me ? DO NOT ASSUME POONTE !! You said " This much, we did well -- you and others, including the government's official mouth pieces like the Gorkhapattra, were forced to pick up on the news of us making noise."

I AM NOT EVEN A KING SUPPORTER AND YOU LIKE A TYPICAL MORON.. ARE TALKING TO ME LIKE ONE. YOU THINK YOU ARE SOME KIND OF AN EXPERT(what qualifies you as an expert in nepal relations do you live there ? Except for the chatters and newspapaers which everyone has access to ? AND YOUR MEANINGLESS PROTEST HAS DONE WHAT ? Except provide a PLATFORM FOR THOSE OPPERTUNISTS. I have a feeling you are also one of them(TRYING TO GET A PEICE OF THE PIE JUST LIKE A GRAFTER). ALL I SEE YOU DO HERE IS MAKE NOISE FOR PUBLICITY I DO NOT SEE YOU MAKING ANY CONSTRUCTIVE SUGEGSTIONS.

You talk as if there were no atrocities taking place at all before Gyaney took over. As a matter of fact ..it was worse. ONCE I AM NOT A SUPORTER BUT I AM WILLING TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE. cause if he does not fix it its the end of his royal family and he hoas everything to loose. He did say he will restore democrasy and freedom once the country becomes stable.

gaule_hero, your reasoning, logic and the conclusion you came to.....WRONG, WRONG WRONG!!!! I hope you now realize what these Maoists are... TERRORISTS.

Gaule hero ji.
Maile pade tapaiko theory ra response arko thread ma cha.
Here, I was curious to know this....

"However I assume the likelihood of that to be low given my understanding of "high" discipline within the Maoists movement."

First let me categorically deny the quote "high" attached with discipline. This incident is is one among many, which shows how disciplined they are ( deny and accept and....)

And another one, "given my understanding of "high" discipline WITHIN the Maoists movement"
How "Within" are we talking about here?
Understanding as a observer like everyone else?

Just curious.

Thanks.

IndisGuise:0

Check this out asshole*

http://www.kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=42214

Highfly you are absolutely right maoists and their supporters are no better than assh*le. The long brain washing description of gaule hero is not different than other maosit and their supporter. Now the above link clearly explains how false and coward are they. They just try to prove them right even that is completely wrong. How coward maoists are? So sad, do maoists and their supporters think they win they Nepal? Just drop this idea from your mind, wrong cannot be right. You havent won the heart of single nepali, you are just capturing peoples fear like naked emperorer with 'so called false clothes'. Be clear in yourself, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND WRONG IS WRONG, WRONG THING CANNOT BE PROVED RIGHT, GOT IT DUMMY?

Old saying:

You take action, we will find answer when time comes.


The current answer to those killing is one that falls under such category of actions.
Maoists killed Pandit Pokharel, Baburam had the same answer.

Funny thing is with NepaliPost.com . Our Nepe sir once denied that my observations
against the peoples in NepaliPost.com
(masked with a logo of American Nepal Journalist's association) are not fair.
For last few weeks, I have seen clearly they are not even publishing the BRB
side story within Maoists. They continue to pour Prachanda sided stories.
It seems the extremists inside Maoshits who prefer armed path compared
to BRB's negotiated settlement plans, have planted the bomb that killed
50+ peoples in Chitwan. Whenever there seems some discussions on
negotiation, the extremists Prachanda-path wallas go haphazard killing of
innocents.

The only answer to Maoists' killing is revenge, kill more maoists by RNA.
You should never expect "PEN" a solution when your opponent is carrying
guns. "PEN" never wins over guns, especially, when a gun is carried by
these blind blood shuckers. RNA should increase its number to 100,000
and fight a war like they did against khampa around 1970s.

GP

Maoistis are nothing more than a gang of cold killers. First, they deliberately kill innocent civilians, then they ask for an apology. Its so easy, its so cheap. Even the political parties and human right organizations are demanding just an apology from the maoists. Its ridiculous, these corrput and criminal politicians declare themselves freedom fighters. I feel sick when I read all these news. I want to vomit to see some people are still trying to defend the maoists' cause.

Exactly my sentiments.

IndisGuise ji -
I concede that I was wrong and my logic did not lead to the truth. Listening to the BBC, I get an impression that the Maoists were actually targeting the civilian bus and not a security vehicle as Prachanda claimed because the bus was regularly being used to carrying security personnel. The Maoists had apparently made a threat before but the timing of this incident confuses me. This is tantamount to war crime IMHO. Having said that, the Maoists have taken the high road of taking the blame for their actions. Their adversary, the RNA does not admit to doing anything reprehensible ? remember the RNA is responsible for making Nepal the world?s number one country in terms of civilian disappearance.

In terms of discipline, my understanding of the Maoists is that the core group ? probably couple of thousands ? is quite disciplined because they are very ideological. But the movement has grown so big in the past 10 years that it has attracted local gunddas who have taken laws into their own hands. Yesterday?s blast appeared to be professionally done, thus I had assumed that if was the Maoists then it was done by the disciplined core group and not the gunddas. Btw, the success of Maoists at extortion has created a new genre of criminals, the Maoists-imposters. Now both groups are harassing ordinary people.

Please bear in mind that I am not a Maoists apologist. Why should I be? The Maoists have extorted my family, my relatives, and my friends. They have killed, kidnapped and harassed people I know including relatives. But I still don?t consider the Maoists to be terrorists because they are fighting a political battle, in other words subscribing to Clausewitz?s dictum, ?war is politics by other means.? In an armed conflict, the ruling class always labels its rival terrorists. George Washington, Menachem Begin, Yassir Arafat have all been labeled terrorists.

gaule_hero, what are you talking about? Have you lost your senses?
There is a very thin line between armed revolutionists and terrorists, and Maoists have time again crossed it. They have killed numerous civilians. I don't disagree that RNA has to be blamed equally for killing civilians but do you know that most of the civilians that are killed by RNA were used as human shields by Maoists? People were dragged from their houses and used in the front line by Maoists while battling againts RNA.
Maoists are nothing but terrorists. They have long forgotten what they are fighting for, and against whom they are fighting.

To GP

Guruji, my good name and Nepaliposts' were unwarranted. Neither Nepali Post nor I do need to defend to your bullshitting (I am sorry for the choice of the word, but I needed to let you know what it is). Nepali Post is an OPEN BOOK, literally, and so am I, even if not literally.

What f--king pro-Maoist material did you see in Nepali Post ?

Next time you utter this bullshit, please don't forget to bring the proof.

To help you, whether a paper is pro-this or pro-that is judged by it's editorial and it's tilt by the proportion of the articles supporting a particular party.

You are a professional. So do this small research on Nepali Post before making the kind of allegations you are making.

How many editorials the editor has written in support of the Maoists ?
(zero)
How many are in support of democracy and in against the monarchy ?
(all)

So how the f--k pro-Maoist is the Nepali Post ?

Now, the tilt.

Nepali Post has archived all of the articles. They must be fewer than 1000. So Guruji, here is a job for you. Classify all the articles as pro-Maoist, pro-King, pro-democracy and whatever pro you find. If you want to add the literary pieces, news materials and whatever you find there, go ahead. Make a pie-chart from your data and bring that here. And for a more meaningful analysis, bring similar data from some non-pro-Maoist magazine as a control.

If you could prove a tilt of Nepali Post to the Maoists, I will apologize to you for all my past and present nasty words to Guruji for your remarks to Nepali Post. If you failed, you will have to go to Girish, Kiran and all members of the team of the Nepali Post, hold their feet and beg for apology.

La ta ma gayen, Girish haru laai godaa dhoyera bas bhanna.

*** *** *** ***

On a sad note, why is it that the most insensitive and most rude people are always in the forefront and loudest and most political when human tragedy like this occurs ?

Please honor the victims. Don't abuse their tragedy for your political purpose. Think about how you can help the victims and bring the perpetrators to justice. The answer to the justice is the Hague, not the private army of the King (to GPji).

Dear gaule_hero, if you justify killings of innocent people for winning a political battle, then why don't you hang yourself? Why don't you kill your wife, your mum, your brother and your children? That bloodshed could help to achieve your political ideology.

Gham-Pani ji ?
Of course I don?t condone killing of innocent civilians. If you read what I wrote, I said that the Maoists admission of the attack on the bus is ?tantamount to war crime.?

It is true that Maoists are kidnapping high school kids to serve as their foot soldiers and act as porters. How do I know? No, not from the RNA propaganda office but from personal ?experience? [present when incident happen] as well as reputed sources like the independent newspapers in Nepal and the UN. The UN has condemned LTTE-type recruitment of children by the Maoists. I also do the same.

In terms of RNA?s repugnant acts, I was not talking [at least in the last piece] about their killings of innocent civilians during the heat of a battle. Nobody knows what happens in the ?fog of war.? Moreover, I don?t believe what?s coming out Deepak Gurung?s mouth. Rather I was talking about RNA personnel going into homes at night and snatching innocent people, and like David Copperfield making them disappear into the air. Such acts are also ?tantamount to war crime.?


another_nepali ji ?
I don?t and I won?t justify killing of innocent people in political battle but it happens. Even the so-called ?just war? has incurred civilian casualties. Remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Remember Dresden?

What I am saying is that the Maoists movement is a political movement and their battle is political. Labeling them terrorist is too simplistic.