Let us all unite against theanti-Hindu forces in Nepal. CAN WE DO IT?

Let us spread message against what is happening to Nepal.
WE WANT IT TO REMAIN A HINDU STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can we unite?
This will be the real challenge.
Look at how Indian medicos/engineers are uniting against job reservation.

Well, OUR RELIGION,HINDUISM THE ODLEST RELIGION IS BEING REMOVED FROM NEPAL. AND NO ONE IS BOTHERED? SICKENING.

Do you know what troubles start if this happens.
PLEASE ALL WAKE_UP AND SEND A STRONG MESSAGE TO THE CORRUPT & CROOK POLITICIANS IN NEPAL.

WE WANT NEPAL TO REMAIN HINDU!!!!!!!!!!

SPEAK EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys I am with you !!

Our country is Hindu country and we want to be called so.
it's our legacy from centuries. its our biggest loss.

Whatever the SPA GORU MEnt did was WRONG !!

serious guys, nepeshahial, imi and the rest carry points. But i dont like to speak as to religion. go on guys, wish you guys will put yourself on your mettle to defend you points. GO GO on buddies!

Well by being secular, what will be the benefit? Will politicians stop having bribe, will people stop fighting? Wasn't "muluki ain" meant to abolish the discrimination set forth by caste system? Well, it is in the people that discrimination still exists, not in the Hindu religion itself. The secularism further will widen the gap, not between religion (as it was next to nil in Nepal) but between the casts also. "This is a new awakening for our nation. A nation where all religion and caste are equal. " Wasn't all religion equal before, in Nepal? Weren't people converting to other religion based on their own choice and judgement? Now what, the Everest should be taken out from Nepal's pride list, because people from tarai can't see it. Everest was an identity of Nepal, so was hinduism. The bottomline is the SPA didn't have mandate to put hand in this issue, they should have relied on people's vote so that the choice would have reflected majority of Nepalese.

just read today's kantipur editorial entitled, "Dharma Nirapechhata ko Sandarvhikata". it poignantly argues for "Secular Nepal".

"secular nepal" is a necessary but certainly not a sufficient pre-condition for "samabeshi loktantra!" More needs to be done to make "loktantra" more samabeshi.

practioners of Hinduism have been good to other religions under "Hindu Nepal", Hinduism can be greater still under "Secular Nepal". but the state has not been good to other religions under "Hindu Nepal". My diatribe is against the state - not against the Hindus!
I want to clarify my position clearly.

Janjatis are non-Hindus, but they are not anti-Hindus. Clamoring for or granting "Secular Nepal" is not an anti-Hindu act. SPA has only heeded the call for "Samabeshi Loktantra" and made a declaration to that effect. the SPA is right to create a climate conducive for a more egalitarian Nepali society.

hyaaaaaa's argument that this issue should be decided at a ballot doesn't hold water. you cannot have a ballot to resolve every god damn issue, given the poor country's resource constraints. whether "Nepal is to stay secular" or a Buddhist country or a Christian country or whatever is something for the constituent assembly to decide when they sit down to draft a new constitution. but first there has to be an election to the constituent assembly first.

remember that Nepal didn't acquire a "Hindu country" status through a ballot in the first place ( it was a discriminatory/offensive state policy imposed on the country's peoples by the then king and his chamchas). So under the changed scenario in Nepal, it was natural for the "Hindu Nepal" status whose origin was not legitimate in the first place to lose all legitimacy with the fall of autocratic monarchy. it was, therefore, natural for the House of Reps to remove the discriminatory/offensive state policy of supporting "Hindu religion" over many other religions to support the people's call for "samabeshi loktantra." don't give us that crap about the SPA should have put this to vote.

i'm afraid that many guys on this sajha thread are playing right into the hands of India-based Hindu orgs and Hindus as well as their stooges in Nepal. these guys on Sajha are only exposing themselves for who they are: bigots & supremacists.

nepesahila has already exposed himself. you want to look for anti-Hindu forces, dude? don't look toward non-Hindus (janjatis, for instance). they are not anti-Hindus. don't delude yourself: don't look for enemies where none exist.

You want to look for anti-Hindu forces? Look within yourself, dude! Your biggest enemies are right inside you. fundamentalist hindus like yourself are the ultimate anti-hindus. go ahead organise against the anti-hindu forces within you.

it seems to me that some of our hindu friends at sahja... are afraid!!! why are you afraid my friends ??? also there seems to be some people posing as muslims and trying to fool the rest that as muslims they support hindu state, too these people just wanted to say what a bunch of losers!!!! karmapa la like what you wrote, interested to know more of your thoughts for more/better changes in nepal.. like using english as a medium for education, etc..

Gesar bro... i am not afraid, hindus are not afraid. I am myself Hindu and follow hindu traditions--celebrate Tihar, Dashain, Hindus love their religion as much as christians and muslims love theirs. So it is natural HIndus stick to their own colors--it is imperative to be sensitive on the matters of their religion at such time of transformation from HIndu to secular. But i take it normally if it doesn't invite further chaos.

Guys put your thought in short--your long statement of points takes much time to read. After all we are here for some fresh mind as well, not only to have a serious debate. I m just requesting if you can consider my feeling abt it.

Being a "hindu" state or having a state religion has nothing to with other religions. It DOES not affect any other religion, in any way. People were free to practice other religion as well as to preach (mind it but not to convert). Was Jana-jatis asking for "secular-state"? Of course not. I have spoken about this issue with Swami Prapannacharya, a scholar, calls himself a kirati but he does not advocate secularism. Like it or not, agree it or not -secularism does not benefit anyone other than "lets kill cows openly" group and missionaries.

There are some people who advocate for secularism but admit that Nepal will always be a Hindu state regardless of its official position, if this is the case than why change it? Isnt this hypocracy?

I do not agree that being "secular" is a pre-cursor to be a "loktantra" either. What is the harm in acknowledging the majority of the population and their belief?

The only people who objected being a Hindu state were the missionaries other than Maobadis. Not the rais, limbus and kirats.

Speaking against the religion and tradition is a fashion, hollow modern day pseudo-intellectualism, nothing more.

I agree that now in Nepal, people will start organizing in the name of religion. People are extremely unhappy about secularism. First it was an attack on personal property and safety by the Maobaids now it is attack on the faith of the majority of the population of the nation. These decisions were uncalled for and unwanted by the people.

Why didn't the SPAs and its leaders did not bother to ask people? Are you kidding me? When have they asked people? The SPA leaders and the Maobadis are supreme now, above the law, above constitution, above corruption, above religion in other words they are gods them selves!! You have heard their "threat" if you do anything against their decisions you will face sever consequences. Is this is the democracy and freedom people wanted?? Don't think so!!

did anyone mention "separation of church and state"?

It seems to have worked well for the United States. The whole Hindu State was Prithvi Narayan Shah's idea as he was a great fan of the Hindu emperor Mana. That 80% figure will probably change again when the next census is taken as more and more indigenous people and dalits probably go back to their original religion or convert because of inequalities, so just sit tight...

Secular state i think is more fair for the entire population.

kg

who exactly are the janjatis? and what do you mean to say by " jan jatis" are non hindus? are tharus and a major fraction of newars non hindus? are they not janjatis? do you mean to say that only sherpa, magar etsc are janjatis? you mean to say that there are no janjatis in terai? you should not put forward such blanket statements. this whole janjati mahasangh being the representative of all indigenous janjatis is a facade. to hell with them.

i was born a buddhist, but don't have any loyalty to any particular religion...

i just think it is unfair that a man has to go to jail for lifefor killing a cow in this day and age. i just think some people should be untouchable just because he/she was born into a certain caste--kami, damai etc...this is a result of the state policies following the religious principles. surely, a secular state will not allow such things. Isn't that fair to most Nepalis?

we should not be emotional about such matters. it is good that we ague about the pros and cons of making our country a secular state. i disagree with the supporters of a Hindu state Nepal, but respect your views.

thanks

karma

WTF
WHy Only Hindu again ? MOrons dun realize pretty soon we will be calling COMRADE VISHNU AND COMRADE SHIVA. he eh

I don't mean to attack here personally to anyone but I don't agree with the points made by some people here.

ss74k,
when did I say that Brahmans and Chhettris are 100% educated? But of course they are far more educated in percentage than the so called lower casts and janajatis, do you disagree with that? Now don't bring up the centuries old stories that they were suppressed and thats why they didn't get the chance and so on.

enigma too,
I am not blaming anyone for supporting secular state of Nepal. I am just supporting that this issue of religion was absolutely unnecessary at the moment (may be in future) to be touched by our government. Nepal was doing fine as a Hindu state, I don't want to blame Hindu religion for the problems in Nepal. It has just been escapegoated.
I, Nepesahila, am the future of Nepal and so are Karmapa, Vhote etc. Of course I will be happy with Nepal being a secular state but it is not now and not the way it has been done.

Karmapa,
Neither I am looking for any anti-hindu forces nor I am anti against any religion. Why I disagreed on Nepal declared as a secular state is I already mentioned above. I don't know how much you know about hinduism but I know well enough that it doesn't teach anyone to be anti-religious. Moreover, there are so many teachings in there that I know that will make me lead a good life regardless of what I choose to be. So no matter how much devoted to Hinduism I am, that has nothing to do with fundamentalism and extremism. Now some people even think that Nepalese language is racially biased to them, I wonder what's left there to unite Nepal.

Karmagurung,
Look the other way around too. Cow is not only a sacred animal to Hindus, it is also our national animal. And nowhere in the world you get to kill the national animal of that country.
Our state policy has already declared that untouchability is illegal in B.S. 2020. So state has nothing to do with that, it is just our society that is holding these values. You know I have seen even the so called lower caste people discriminating against each other. So it is not just the so called upper castes, everyone wants to be on the upper part of the pyramid, or on top, if possible.

Posted on 05-22-06 9:38 AM Reply | Notify Admin
Samuel Tamrat behind moves to declare Nepal secular
New York, 21 May: Imperialist Christians made heavy investments in declaring Nepal secular, National Janamanch reports quoting S J Shah.

The leadership was taken this time Samuel Tamrat, political advisor of US Secretary general Kofi Annan.

There was no mention of a secular state in the first draft of the proclamation by parliament.

Prime Minister Girija Prasad Koirala and Prachanda wouldn't have made an issue over it.

Tamrat convinced officials India and Nepal during his fortnight's tour of the two countries.

The Pope has congratulated Annan and specially Tamrat after Nepal was declared a secular state.

People’s News/BR

We can learn a lot from US and we should that does not mean copy and paste of the US system will work in Nepal or anywhere else. Separation of State and Religion is good for US because there is a lot of bureaucracy in both; and both will suffer if mixed together. There is no centralized Hindu temple, in the way that there is a centralized Roman Catholic Church. In the case of Nepal- religion does not influence political decisions; the priests of pashupati or some where else are no more than ordinary citizens.
The Hindu state was symbolic and did not benefit any priests or class. There are laws against chuwa/chut and religious discrimination. Who will benefit Nepal from being a secular state? Maobadis and the missionaries, no one else. Why does it benefit Maobadis, primarily because they it goes with their communist ideology. And it benefits no one else.

To all janjati supporters and against Hinduism in the name of janjati,
We can have Affirmative action in Nepal and we had may be it wasn’t well implemented .What garantee it will .With same old power hungry bastards.I am firm believer of affirmative action .But question is does affirmative action really work. Example:blacks .why they are still poorest in USA..If u consider USA democratic country- it is not only system.If i were one of them i would drag myself up from that. So, though I favor affirmative action It also depends on person. So don't make janjati as a shield to defend yourself and put commies agenda.

Vootee:
Till this proclamation, i really didn't thought about religion so strongly .but this hasty and unwanted decision has made me think twice about my religion and other religion in Nepal.yes you are very right liberalism is in heart.But my heart also tells me that things are not going to be ok in Nepal and not ok with Hinduism .with increasing population of muslims and Christians,Believe me or not hinduism is going to be history.It is one of the oldest religion.There is more to it than just teachings of GOD and Goddess.It is very scientific and unfortunately people don't understand and think everything is imposed upon them .
My fren , Vootee,i do not benefit by keeping dalit under me neither have I done so or want anybody to do so..I will voice to educate them .

See SPA sideling more important issues and jumping to more sensitive issues???which is dividing people.More than other proclamations.I hope there is peace and no religious war(but you have some understanding about cultural and social aspect of south asia).But it is just my hope. i do not encourage people to fight with other religion nor i am protesting here against other religion, i am just saying ,WHY????

When there can be 50 Islamic states, more than 10 countries whose state religion is Buddhism, 1 Jew state. It was so difficult for people, LIKE U, to digest there was 1 Hindu country in this world. Ask Jews, what they feel about religion ?

Religion is our culture and religion shapes who we are as person. Religion is way of life. Taken religion positively

Well regarding, you joining Maoist, feel free to do so. No ones stopping you. DO you really think (you live outside and assume you know about communism) hear you? Does u think commies are really for dalit and janjatis? They are just exploiting another sensitive issue .taking advantage. Divide and Rule.

And not even killing cow is an issue.. the issue is killing people in the name of cow.if I were SPA I rather not had open this sensitive issues and trigger irrelevant issue at this time.If need be people would have voted for and I would accept the outcome.

Enigma2:
So all the other country which are secular is peaceful and democratic? Or all the country which Have national religions are underdeveloped? Doesn’t make sense . what are u implying. Was religion the main cause for Nepal being where it is right now?
Let’s abolish religion from Nepal, Wat do u say? Radical then why not
Be more rebelious.What guarantee is naming secular will do good to Nepal? And not invite more problems. The way I look at is .it brings more bad than good. Now that SPA can to do whatever they like they can pass another proclamation no one hear onwards worship to any god.- commies don’t believe in god .they tried in Russia.


What is the reason to hide this under communist agenda? If they were going for CA. let people decided. Can SPA do what ever they like?????

No matter how much people defend here in sajah. Religious Violence is inevitable in future of Nepal .We will see that brothers ,Karmapa , Vootee. Enigma2.i don’t wish though . 21 people died to get this .We will count 2100 heads . It is upto u guys to understand what and why I think it was wrong decision in wrong time and in wrong way. Just mark my words man. I guess I have said enough but u guys are not listening just like SPA.:u don’t listen to 80% population and preach democracy :)

I put my points you guys put yours .It is up to sajahites to take what we think.As you guys move more towards left it is making me move more towards right.Same is and will be the case in Nepal. If you got my point.

Regarding the organized hindu forces , there is all organized islamic,christian forces too.Can you please speak against them as well .JUST DON’T BLAME HINDUSIM FOR ALL THE SOCIAL EVIL.THESE ARE LAME EXCUSES.

CHANGING THE NAME IS ANOTHER IS EXAMPLE OF HOW ARE LEADERS INGORE JANJATHIS .IT IS THEIR CHEAP SOULTION TO SATISFY THEM.IF U WANT TO CHANGE , CHANGE MENTALITY AND ATTITUDE OF OVER ALL POPULATION.EDUCATE THEM .CHANGE THE NAME LATER ,THEN THAT WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANCE .THOSE PEOPLE JUMPING WITH GREAT HAPPINESS.I PITY THEM .THEY HAVE BEEN AGAIN FOOLED BY POLITICIANS. SO POINT:CHANGING IN NEPAL SHOULD NOT BE BEGINNING CHANGING THE NAME SHOULD BE ENDING .LOOKING AT SOCIAL, ECONOMICAL ASPECTS OF NEPAL.

With this kind of democracy.
May god save Nepal and Nepali

Kalki Kapil and non-Hindus:

We can go on and on this
conversation but will lead us no where.



The best way to deal with this matter is:
"CHALLENGE THE DECISION IN COURT"





These SPAM has no right and majority of people's mandate to make that decision,
rather than thinking of killing each other or organizing, people who is for the
"HINDU NEPAL IN THE WHOLE UNIVERSE," we can unite and use democracy to nullify their
decision, either it has to be reverse or people should get a chance to choose by election whether to keep as HINDU state or faithless-zombies state.

- Peace

[FYI! I noticed the Sajha deleted my previous comments on
this thread, is it run by Maoist too?]

धर्मनिरपेक्षताको सान्दर्भिकता: from Kantipur editorial
प्रतिनिधिसभा घोषणापत्र- २०६३ ले विभिन्न धर्मावलम्बी, जनजाति तथा अधिकारवादीहरूले लामो समयदेखि गर्दै आएको संघर्षको सम्मान गर्दै नेपाललाई धर्म निरपेक्ष तुल्याएको छ । धर्म आफैंमा आम मानिसको आस्थाको माध्यम
हो । सामूहिक भावनामा आधारित हुने हुनाले यो संवेदनशील हुन्छ । धर्मलाई आस्था र सेवाका रूपमा मात्र लिनुपर्ने भए पनि राज्य नीतिका रूपमा अंगीकार गर्ने प्रवृत्ति अझै केही देशहरूमा छ । धर्म र राजनीतिबीचको सम्बन्धले धर्मको व्यापकतालाई कुण्ठित गर्छ । धर्मको महानतालाई सीमित तुल्याउँछ र सेवा भावनालाई लेनदेन बनाइदिनसक्छ ।

नेपालमा बहुसंख्यक हिन्दु धर्मावलम्बीको बसोवास हुँदैमा यो हिन्दु अधिराज्य रहिआएको होइन । हिन्दु धर्मलाई राज्य नीतिहरूमा समेत समावेश गर्ने मान्यताका कारण धर्मविशेषलाई बढी जोड दिइएको हो । नेपाललाई हिन्दु धर्मावलम्बीहरूको देशका रूपमा विशेषगरी भारतीय हिन्दुहरूले आस्था गर्छन् भने त्यो गर्वकै विषय हो । भारतीय राज्यसभाका भारतीय जनता पार्टी नेता जसवन्त सिंहले नेपालले हिन्दु अधिराज्य हटाउँदा आफूलाई लघुताबोध भएको टिप्पणी पनि गरेका छन् । देशभित्र पनि केही हिन्दु धर्मसम्बन्धी संस्थाहरूले यसको आलोचना गरेका छन् । त्यसो गर्दा हिन्दु कुनै धर्मभन्दा बढी सभ्यता हो भन्ने मान्यता अस्वीकार हुने बुझ्नुपर्छ ।

हिन्दु राज्यका रूपमा राज्यनीति कायम राखिरहनुको कुनै औचित्य छैन । कुनै धर्मविशेषलाई बढी जोड दिनुको अर्थ अरूलाई कम वास्ता गर्नु हो । हिन्दु धर्मले अरू धर्मलाई अनादर गर्न सिकाउँदैन, बरू धर्मका आधारमा कसैलाई भेदभाव नगर्न सिकाउँछ भन्ने मान्यता राख्न सक्नुपर्छ । हिन्दु हुनु भनेको गौरवको विषय हो भने अरू धर्ममा आस्था राख्ने वा आस्तिकहरूलाई पनि उत्तिकै आदर गर्न सकिन्छ । त्यसो गर्न राज्यलाई कुनै धर्मविशेषसँग जोडिरहनुपर्दैन । धर्मसँग नजोडीकन राज्यलाई जनताका आम आकांक्षामा आधारित राजनीतिबाट मात्र निर्देशित गर्नुपर्छ । प्रतिनिधिसभाले नेपाललाई आधुनिकतम लोकतन्त्रात्मक राज्यव्यवस्थाका जिम्मेवार नागरिकहरूको देश बनाउन उक्त घोषणा गरेको हो भन्ने विश्वासका रूपमा लिन सक्नुपर्छ ।

बहुसंख्यक हिन्दु रहे पनि तिनै हिन्दुले यहाँ के बौद्धमार्गी, के मुस्लिम, के क्रिस्चियनलाई उत्तिकै सराहना गर्छन् । नेपाली सभ्यता र संस्कृतिको मौलिक पक्ष कुनै पनि धर्मावलम्बी किन नहोस् जीवनपद्धति र सांस्कृतिक व्यवहार एउटै छ । संस्कृतिका दृष्टिले धर्म नछुट्टनिे गरी नेपाली समाज मिसिएको छ । त्यसकारण नेपाली हुनु नै ठूलो धर्म हो भन्ने संस्कार भएको देशमा धर्मनिरपेक्षताको उदाहरण दिन झन् सकिन्छ । त्यसमाथि जाति, जनजाति, भाषाभाषीका दृष्टिले विश्वमै विविधताबीच एकताको नमुना भएको देशले त्यही पहिचानको मर्यादा बढाउन पनि कुनै धर्मप्रति विशेष आग्रह गरिरहनु स्वाभाविक हुँदैन । लोकतन्त्र भनेकै न्याय र समानतामा आधारित राज्य प्रणाली भएकाले त्यस्तो व्यवस्थामा अल्पसंख्यकहरूले लघुताबोध गर्नुपर्ने गरी कुनै धर्मलाई राज्यले अंगीकार गरिरहनु हुँदैन ।

हिन्दु धर्मले प्रत्यक्ष त्यसको वकालत नगरे पनि कर्मकाण्डीहरूले यसलाई जातीय भेदभावको माध्यम बनाएका छन् । जातीय भेदभाव, छुवाछूतजस्ता आधुनिक समाजले सजिलै दुत्कार्नुपर्ने मूल्यमान्यता धर्मका आडमा संरक्षित रहिआएका

छन् । यो देश लाखौं लाख दलितहरूको पनि हो, जसले कुनै पनि क्षण आफू अन्यबाट हेपिएको अनुभूति गर्नु आम नागरिकहरूका लागि लज्जास्पद हो । यो देश बौद्ध धर्मावलम्बीहरूको पनि हो जसका त गौतम बुद्ध स्वयं यहीँ जन्मेका थिए भनेर सारा नेपाली गर्व गर्छन् । यो देश अन्य धर्मावलम्बीहरूको पनि हो, जसले कहिल्यै पनि आस्थाका आधारमा आफूलाई भिन्न सम्भिmनुपर्ने अवस्था हुनु हुँदैन । आफूलाई गर्वसाथ नेपाली नागरिक ठान्नु सबैको समान अधिकारको विषय हो

Kantipur ...hahahahahha its like another FOX.
let me tell u story how kantipur moved up .By kissing girija's ass.then what they did .attacked girja.calling kantipur fair newpaper is like insult to honest journalism.They are driven by money making motive and solely for profit so listening to kantipur is fine as long as you filter it .So they are champions and pioneer in propoganda.Ok enough about kantipur we can discuss that in another thread about kantipur if u guys like..

Read about what i said above in this topic for those people who love dearly janjatis and care about them so much .that tears are coming out of my eyes.

I do not want to remain HINDU.
So lets change it. IN YO FACE KAPIL. Why should we remain hindu ? What benefit would I have remaining a hindu ? What are the advantages ? Christians are hading out food vouchers and free lodging, Muslims are hookin up business connections in Dubai for jobs and oppertunities, WHAT CAN THE HINDU"S GIVE ME ? he eh

And this goes fo them Janajaati supporters and sympathisers don't tell me if they gave you materialistics things you won't jump the fuking ship. If you say NO ...you fukers are lyin!!!!!!

nepal should be a jewish religion now!