San,

I know Sajha is your baby and you have every right to give it any kind of haircut you choose. But as a frequent clicker of your site, I too have every right to voice my grievances.

It looks like creative work is getting a very low priority in your new format.

1. First, the headings for Stories/Poems,Ghazals/Humor section are collapsed. Why can’t you display the five most recent threads and give an option of ‘More’ for these headings as well? Are we really that less important than ‘Kurakani’?

2. Kurakani & Classifieds & Immigration take precedence over creative writings. Call me biased, but I favor “Ek haat testai” over ‘Graduate Lady Wanted for Marriage’ any given married day.

I don’t know about other writers, but I write here because I want to reach to more people. I have always been as shameless as humanly possible about it. With this thread, I am only taking it to a new height of shamelessness.

I come to Sajha because nobody promoted me more than you did in the beginning (not even SNDY). I have always felt deeply grateful and a little embarrassed because I was not worth it.

There are some very good writers/poets in Sajha. I am sure I speak for all of them when I ask you: “Did your dingo eat my thread, San?” ( It’s a Seinfeld line, I have no idea what it means).

I hope you will reconsider. By now, Sajha to you must be more than just a product. Whatever you reply, please don’t tell me to do: “Hey sum_off, you can always click on ‘I like Old Style’."

The reason we are still humans is because we are so used to defaults.

samsara
why can't you just ignore posts that have personal bashings and move on with the discussions with arguments? you don't necessarily have to feed the troll if you are interested in the essence of the discussions, do you?

I agree 100 % with Loote.I wanted to say this to Samsara earlier but just backed out because I thought he might take it in a wrong way.

Samsara -

I think those are great suggestions if people are up for it and it can be made to work. It is ultimately about common sense if you ask me. I think it's okay for people to fly off the handle - it happens in real life and why wouldn't it happen here? But like in real life, there's got to be a point where enough is enough. I think moderators, hosts, thread starters, whatever we want to call them, should use the delete button more liberally - that's one way of knocking sense, as you put it, into people heads which can sometimes, and quite naturally, get clogged with all the heat and passion that flows through the pages of Sajha.

I also think there should be a member rating system so that repeat offenders - those who have a reputation for deliberate and disruptive behavior are identified and if necessary penalized. I've seen this used successfully on other forums to weed out people who think they can get away with anything just because they are anonymous. Each person gets to rank every other user. Over a period of time, this should produce reliable stats, because most people who come to Sajha at the end of the day are sensible people, at least to some extent, and can be trusted to exercise the right judgment in my opinion.

Take care see you around - it's always fun to chit chat with you.

San bro, some food for thought. Man, we are overwhelming you today with suggestions, huh? This is beginning to sound like a Sajha convention and I hope you are enjoying it as much as I am.

:)

Maybe I have a confrontational streak in me, but I think trolls can be ignored once or twice but need to be dealt with at some point. Not confronting such despicable behaviour, beyond a certain point, is unfair to the people who come to Sajha to have a sensible discussion or just have harmless fun. If you say something on a public forum like Sajha, you better be prepared to defend it in my opinion.

Just my thoughts.

Also, I don't agree with Samsara, Rato Bhaley and BC all the time, but all in all, they have done a greater service than disservice to this site by calling out hypocrisy and double standards on numerous occasions. That is not to say I endorse everything they have said or done, or the language they've used, but I want to give credit where it is due since I probably wont get an opportune moment like this again to say such a thing.

In fact all of the posters who have posted to this thread, IMO, are people who stand out in one way or the other and make Sajha worth it if you ask me. They're here, I think, because they have an interest in making this community work and are not hesitant to speak up.

Alright, with that bit of self patting I need to be off.

Have a good one all.

:)

i would love to agree with you captain but i guess a heated argument can be dealt in the best manner possible if both the parties identify their responsibilities and abide by the general norms of an open forum that sajha is.

i agree, everyone has a threshold of tolerance and when trolls tend to cross the limit, digressions and personal attacks are inevitable. it's as much responsibilities on the receivers' part as is on the trolls IMO. just for the record, how many times have you encountered them in your posts/threads?--none to very rarely. so is in my case. i don't think ashu, nepe et al have shied away from opining because of trolls. the best medicine, in most instances IMO, is to ignore. for extreme abnormalities and reckless behaviors, San da Cop is always there and that's why my proposal of moderators to him--to help him in his duties. but if he feels it's not needed at the moment, oh well, no worries.

i don't want to offend any particular individual here, but just for the sake of point i am trying to make to make things clearer, posters like samsara is bound to attract more trolls if he keeps going back at them like there is no tomorrow. as much as i personally admire him for some sensible posts he's written, i candidly don't entertain his come-back attitude towards the trolls. you reap what you sow.

as they say, can't clap with just one hand. there are plenty of closed forums where like-minded people come together, where stalking is very rare to nil. people who find sajha full of trolls can perhaps entertain themselves more in there. an open forum like sajha is bound to have people of all levels of temperament and intellect.

OK, hello everyone..how's everyone doing here? Loote, r u still alive? Didn't know that..opps, wrong thread..

LOL sn di,
i am just experimenting on how long i can live without going to too many threads ...an experiment for acquittal from all worldly pleasures ke

everyone discussing about where the thread is gone..........

Well mero pani aauta duita thread were lost in nowehre...

it happens and will happen for sure.. san bro can't promise you guys for sure in this matter....

-rockend

ani sndy why are you so restless...

-rocky

Whatever..

Loote you are stilll the same kiddo........ yar.............


love ur attitude of being childish.........


keep it up....!!! coz child has the ability to learn more than a man.......

-rocky

He he Rocky, balla fursad paiyo ani there's no one..restless hunna ta?

Sum_off..I had just about read your article and was like gatherin my thoughts to comment and poof...it disappears! This explains it all ke!
Seinfeld is a classic eh? And the title of that particular episode actually refers to the tragic Lindy /Azaria Chamberlain case,better known as "The Dingo ate my Baby" case.. Just Google!!(if u haven't already)

Loote da Hunk -

Hey, its nice not be afraid to disagree sometimes - wouldn't you agree? ... he he. I realize I am putting a lot at stake by taking this up with you but I trust our friendship is strong enough to survive this conversation. With that said, please see my comments below:


"the best medicine, in most instances IMO, is to ignore.

We'll just have to disagree there. To me that is cowardice - sorry I can see it no other way. Note I am not passing judgement about you the entire person but merely that one act. So you are not a coward but the act of ignoring, beyond a reasonable threshold, regardless of who does it, you or me, is cowardice as far as I am concerned. It's a whole other story as to when one should let go.

One of the most fundamental things in dealing with bullies - whether they be of the overtly dominating and omnipresent type or the hide and run guerilla type, is to challenge their act so that they realize, sooner or later, there is a consequence to what they are doing. Ignoring them, beyond a certain point, is absolving them of personal responsibility IMO and giving them a free ticket to walk over you and others. If that's the choice some people want to make, I have nothing to say, but I am on the side of people who will not let such BS go unchallenged because , in all humbleness, I am one of them. I suspect that is also true of quite a few others here on Sajha.

"i don't want to offend any particular individual here, but just for the sake of point i am trying to make to make things clearer, posters like samsara is bound to attract more trolls if he keeps going back at them like there is no tomorrow. as much as i personally admire him for some sensible posts he's written, i candidly don't entertain his come-back attitude towards the trolls. you reap what you sow.

In my opinion, you are asking the wrong person to shut up. I don't know enough about Torikophul to pass judgement on whether or not (s)he can be considered a troll or not, but generally speaking, if we put this specific episode aside, I think the person who is disrupting threads to settle a personal grudge should be the one to shut up. I say that, again, based not on this thread, but some other recent threads I have seen where it's just abuse after abuse with no purpose other than putting the other person down.

(Torikphool, none of this is directed at you personally - hope you wont take offense as I have nothing against you)

Also, while you can't feed the agenda of such people, you can't appease them either by letting them get away with such egregious acts. To me, there is a balancing act involved, and challenging such behavior, again with the caveat of knowing when to let go, is the right thing to do.

I'll also say that is different from cases where otherwise reasonable people sometimes loose it over something that later appears trivial. As long as a person does not willfully spoil other threads to settle their grudge, I can see where ignoring, up to a higher threshold, might make some sense.

as they say, can't clap with just one hand. there are plenty of closed forums where like-minded people come together, where stalking is very rare to nil. people who find sajha full of trolls can perhaps entertain themselves more in there. an open forum like sajha is bound to have people of all levels of temperament and intellect.

If I understood the implications of that statement correctly, people who cannot take BS from others should find other sites to go to? If so, that's quite amusing and frankly surprising coming from you.

A couple of things on that:

(1) Such a decree will have to come from San. If that's what he wants, I am sure Samsara will not be the only one out. I am prolly next on the list and a few others too will need to pack their bags. Who knows maybe at the end of the day only the trolls might be left in this place ... (that's in jest ... ha ha )

(2) It contradicts the last sentence where you seem to be urging tolerance. I don't see how implying someone should leave can be considered tolerance.

That said, I do agree with the ethos of the last statement - this is a great place because we have people of different economic, social, political and cultural backgrounds - men and women, boys and girls of different ages from different places. In many ways we are a microcosm of Nepal. Conflict is all but natural when interests collide and we all fight for precious real estate on the home page - which to me is at the core of the conflict. That's where San bro needs to make an executive decision and decide which direction he wants to take Sajha in should the conflict become untenable and disrupt the functioning of the site. Hence my suggestion for having groups and sections which I think is the best shot we have at ensuring every body gets a voice and a fair amount of real estate on Sajha.

Hope you aren't too mad at me. Having known you for a while, I did sense some strong feelings in your past post, so thought I'd share my side of things and lay it all out on the table. It makes me feel better to have done so :) I guess we just approach this from two very different places and therefore are beating different drums.

I look forward to reading any further thoughts you might have on the subject.

Best wishes.

:)

I couldn't resist writing after reading Capt. saab's comments..Ignoring for you is cowardice re? For me ignoring ;) is bliss.. Seriously, I agree with Loote. It's so much better ignoring them than fighting with them. It's not worth it. In the end, you're losing your energy. You can use that energy somewhere else for more productive work. Just my thought..

I thought that ignoring and ignorance had two completely different meanings....!

Ustai ustai ho nanu..

nanu haina babu ho ;) sndy = sandy / surendra? :S

OK, babu..sndy = surendra, satindra, shaminder, sunny, shammi j bhande ni huncha

. subloog idhar....ab maluum hua cafe qyoo slow hai...