HOR declares Nepal “untouchability free” country

In yet another major announcement, the reinstated House of Representatives on Sunday unanimously endorsed a proposal to declare Nepal a country “free of untouchability and all kinds of discrimination.”

The legal and constitutional status of the proposal, however, remains unclear.

Moving a proposal of “urgent public importance,” a lawmaker of the CPN (UML), Parshuram Neghi Gurung, called on so-called dalit community—that constitutes 16 percent of the country’s 27 million population—in all processes of making new constitution and ending all sorts of discriminatory policies and practices including so-called untouchability.

The proposal calls for mobilization of special economic programme for education, health and employment for dalits and those under the absolute poverty line to their status.

The constitution of the kingdom of Nepal 1990 prohibits all types of discrimination against citizens on the basis of caste, gender or religion. But activists said a number of discriminatory provisions and laws were still in practice.

Addressing the House session on Sunday, Minister for Law, Justice and Parliamentary Affairs Narendra Bikram Nemwang said untouchability was a social crime and that the government would introduce a new bill soon to make necessary amendments in the existing Act.

Earlier, the House of Representatives has already declared Nepal a secular state and asked the government to formulate laws so as to issue citizenship certificated to children in the name of their mother. Earlier, the certificate could be issued in the name of father only.

Santosh Giri is the first thing i wont touch.

thanks.......sidister...... at least you said it openly.

where is felicity :) and vishonatar :). we need to compromise kya?so santosh giri gets his money.hehehehe..

Hey guys... felicity is back. Sorry vishontar... to have ur theory of muslim boyfreind refuted. My say on this is: LOVE IS WAY TOO OVERRATED. I listed myriads of reasons. My final say: i will continue studying Islam...aongside go on reading more about hindiusm as well..... despite my utter despise on caste syste. Thank u all for all the enlightment there was.

Felicity
welcome back. Where had u been??

When are you writing about the Islam? Can't wait.
:-)>

Camo... I am back..isn't that enough? hehe. where had i been?,,,,... u know how hectic life gets here. but hanks for the welcome ;)
And..i will write about Islam..... some day..when i could write it as i understand..not copy paste from myriads of webpages....so have patience till then :)

Santosh Ji, thank you so much for your wonderful words, we resonate :)!

IMI ji, thanks for your view.

Felicity Ji, I don't think we have any differences. Not only you and me, most of us are against the impurities of our society like caste system. I don't think it will last long because we are the new generation and don't want it anymore.

A wise person always realize one's own weak point. Unlike most of the Nepali (arrogance: मेरो गोरुको बार्है टक्का), you realized that you have not studied Hinduism. You deserve respect.

If I were you, I would have studied Buddhism instead of Hinduism. Since Buddhism was born and grew in Hinduism, it includes Hinduism in it. You will be able to understand real, practicle Hinduism prevailing at the time of Buddha through the study of त्रिपिठक (Buddhist literature). All dark and bright parts of it. Another reason is, Buddhism is Historical, which makes it more real. Good for scientists like you :).

..........................................

Regarding my last question that what makes you to orient towards Islam, you mentioned mainly two reasons.

1. You like the idea of Islam because it believes in a single god.

I would say, this must be just your personal choice. I don't think there is any advantage of one god over many gods. To me one god or more gods or no god, all are theory without any scientific base. Monotheist, Polithiests, atheist all are believers. It's just a personal choice, like red color versus blue color. Some like red color some like blue color, there is no special advantage of red over blue or vice versa.

Please enlighten us if concept of Monotheism is more scientific than Paganism (seriously I don't see any).

2. You dislike the malpractices (like caste system) of Hinduism

I also dislike malpractices of Hinduism and there are many like us. You are studying Koran, a pure theoritical Islam. Real Islam has severe problems; perhaps worser than the caste system. You have been bycutting all the wrong practices of Islam just by saying ......it is not in Koran ......its not the real Islam....Islam is misunderstood etc etc. However, you are considering worng practices of Hinduism (like caste system, animal secrifice etc ) as a real Hinduism. As a wise person, a scientist, please, re-evalute yourself if you are doing justice!

Next I will write malpractices of Islam. Hope you as well as other people will add more. Hope this all will help you to make right decision........


Please don't take this as a debate. I am writing just because my understanding may help you to make a right decision during your convertion process :). Please share your Muslim wisdom with us too; we will certainly appreciate.

I don't care much about Hinduism( it is kinda difficult to explain why our deity has a trunk to khaires), but it seem to me like someone's playing the devil's advocate. Why come to a message board and announce that you're converting to Islam? Vishnotar, your posts are enlightening of course, but I feel like you're being taken for a wild ride. If Felicity wants to convert to Islam, she doesn't need a messageboard to validate or invalidate her stance. Just do it.She's just airing her dirty laundry in the public only to grab some attention. Give it a rest, folks. I mean her mind is set, if she's decided to conver to Islam. Why try to change her mind? Let her do it. As I said, she's only faking it. If she's really converting to Islam, she would have her actual life to think about.
As to untouchability free Nepal, it is a pipe dream. I would say it'll take centuries before we'll achieve such a feat. Maybe with more urbanization, the specter of untouchability will stop haunting us. I think that's gonna happen, but in a very distant future. Just declaring Nepal "untouchability free" won't change people's demeanor towards people on the bottom of the totem pole. It's all about people's attitude. I think that comes through education.
As I said in a different post, what about the fact that Pakistani Muslims haven't been able to completely do away with their caste system? Want proof? Read about Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who was born into a Rajput family here:

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9079077

The point here is that the caste system isn't strictly "Hindu". Sikhs, Indian Buddhists and Christians, and South Asian Muslims are still afflicted and haunted by the caste system. What makes you think that converting to Islam will help you escape the caste system? I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here because I know someone's playing the devil's advocate. Nobody would come to a public forum and announce her plans.

Who is Allah? He was a Bedoin Moon-god, of course. Jehovah, for example, was one of various Jewish pagan gods. Jews were originally polytheistic before they started worshipping only one God. All major religions of today have their roots in polytheism. Plus, as they say, Hinduism is pantheistic, not polytheistic per se, that is all gods are manifestations of one diving Being. Some say the ancient Greek religion was also of the same type.
But anyway, point is that, if you wanna convert, just do it. Don't air your dirty laundry in public and expect us to believe you hook, line and sinker without challenging your tripe.

Aren't we done yet :-S

Hahaahah..
this thread will begin when felicity starts writing about islam .And i get to correct it and question it:)
To all hindus,
Be proud of you religion.I am not asking you to have a holy war against anyother religion.We have a religion that has a lot to offer.Not everybody needs religion or everybody is religious but if you need to then Hindu welcomes you back anyday anytime because hindu religion loves you:)
When you are in trouble or you need something .who do you remember.God So, it is in our culuture and how we have been brought up.Therefore , instead of always critizing our religion let us embrace good things this our religion has to offer.Don't be ashamed when somebody says why you have caste , why you have god with trunk?why there is scarifice?
be able to give them scientific reasonings.I bet they will be impressed with such nature friendly religion.Because i have talked to many and they are amazed when i interpret the reasonings.
Don't be ashamed .we have oldest and a great religion !!!!

RPU Ji, thanks for your wonderful words. In fact I am not trying to stop Felicity to change her religion, rather helping her to make the right decision. Both are different things. For me all the religions are same, their practitioners are nothing more than sheep. She seems very smart girl, she knows what is better for her, she doesn't need my advice :).

I am a not proud of Hindu tradtition and culture. If a Dalit can say he is Proud of Hinduism, I will back him up, otherwise not.

I proud of Hinduism for completely different reason. I will write it at the end of my posting, probably soon. Before that I am writing something for Felicity.

Vishontar,
When are you going have time???you always come up make statement and disappear.I really like to see how you put your points.You are not proud of hindu culture and so on.Dude, either don't make statement or when u do back it like a man.I didn't like your statement that"i am not proud of hindu culture" so tell me what didn't u like ??did you go thru what i said ..don't blame hinduism !!!!open your eyes and see the world and things from different perspective.
I am sure now you will be gone for another month.Have nice time.
Suggestion:Don't make statements all the time and if you don't have time don't write anything that is controversal.

-Garden looks greener from another side of the fence.
–Little knowledge is dangerous thing.

If you got converted to Islam and accepted by Islamic world, you must stick to it. It is a one way road, terribly difficult to come back. If you try to leave Islam in future, that will be insult to Islam and you will not be tolerated.

Have you ever heard of honor killing?
Do some google search on Honor Killing! I can see you have strong faith on Islam probably you will escape this horrible Islamic act but there is finite probability for your daughter to face.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engASA330181999
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2004-02/a-2004-02-23-1-1.cfm

Some time ago I have read a story in BBC. A guy from Pakistan killed his entire family of five members including two relatives. The reason was he wanted to kill his daughter who wanted to get married with a Christian guy who refused to get converted to Islam. Other members got killed in the process of saving her. He went to police station with great pride and honor, and said he saved one Muslim getting converted to Christianity. What a foolish honor! Every year 500 women lose their lives in Pakistan alone.

This is inside Islam. …….

You can not say this is not real Islam. This is real Islamic law. When women of Pakistan raised voice against it, Pakistan Government said it couldn’t change the law because it is an Islamic country.

BBC News : The Pakistan government has allied with Islamists to reject a bill which sought to strengthen the law against the practice of "honour killing". The parliament rejected the bill by a majority vote on Tuesday, declaring it to be un-Islamic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4311055.stm

Gang Rape:
There is another controversial Islamic law in which if your son keeps illegal sexual relationship with any other woman, the relatives of that woman can have mass rape with your daughter. What a justice! I am sure you must be reading Muktar Mai’s case. She has occupied a long page in Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhtar_Mai
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4620065.stm


You mentioned you will not care about Islamic dress; it’s not a major thing. Perhaps you are logically right but I am doubtful whether you can it if you want to dissolve in Islamic world.

BBC News: For a woman failing to wear the all-encompassing cloak, the burqa, correctly, the penalty was a public flogging.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1654459.stm

This is under Taliban Rule. If you claim that you know Islam better than Mullah Omar. It will be hard for me to buy your statement. Mullah Omar is one of the greatest Islamic Guru of modern day.

I hope you are aware of all of these...

Contd............

IMI Ji,

I am a not proud of Hindu tradtition and culture. If a Dalit can say he is Proud of Hinduism, I will back him up, otherwise not.

This was my answer to your question.

I've got an idea. Lets reverse the role for a year where Bahuns will be the untouchables and barred from the temples and Untouchables will run the temples & Nepali politics. haha, hasso lagyo yaar!

You did not answer!!!and hey your two quotes on the top of thread i said that to felicity.It is ofcourse not mine you can use it.
If dalit says he is proud of hinduism??hahah
go and ask dalit to find out more first.Do you know who descriminates dalit the most????
the answer is dalit.May be this answer might bounce in your head.I will give you time to think.

And why islam is one way street?She lives in USA not in Iran.She can choose whatever religion whenever she wants.There is nothing like you cannot return.although,I don't really care she returns or not.

One more thing . i don't care what dalit thinks i don't care what other religion thinks .Tell me why Hinduism is bad then we will go from there.But before that read my post in this thread .There is more than 150 posts in this thread. I have answered most of your dislikes of hindu religion from my interpretation.Think outside the box.Try to analyze not only criticise.

Contd…….

When I was in Kathmandu, I have always seen Muslim guys covering Ratna Park during Friday. Have anybody seen considerable amount of women? I am afraid; I haven’t seen women at all while praying (From the roof of the Trichandra College).

No woman can drive a car in Saudi Arabia because it will be against the Islamic law. What equality! I can't imagine such things can also happen in this free world in 21st century!

School girls were burned alive because they were not wearing proper Islamic dress. Read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

There is no surprise that this type of horrible incidence takes place in Saudi Arabia.

BBC News: One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".
The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned "it is a sinful to approach them".

Felicity, don't think that these things are happening only in rural Afghanistan and Pakistan. These things happen among well cultured west-settled Muslims as well. If you don't believe, you can read Amnesty International Report that I have cited before.

Couple of years ago, there was a big news in the US media. An Arabian working girl got killed in NYC by her Mistress by throwing her from the window of a tall building. Her mistress was associated with Arabic royal family. Do you know what the fault of that poor girl was? She happened to walk before her mistress while they were shopping. She was not supposed to walk before her mistress. Poor her might have walked unconsciously but lost her life!

Contd.......

Mahatma Gandhi on Untouchability
UNTOUCHABILITY

God never made man that he may consider another man as an untouchable.

I would far rather that Hinduism died than untouchability lived.

My fight against untouchability is a fight against the impure in humanity.

To say that a single human being, because of his birth, becomes an untouchable, unapproachable, or invisible, is to deny God.

Anger, lust and such other evil passions ranging in the heart are the real untouchables.

http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/Gandhi.quotes.html#UNTOUCHABILITY

More Gandhism on Untouchability
GANDHI AND UNTOUCHABILITY


Excerpts From:
Hinduism and Islam
A Comparative Study
Copyright © 1997, All Rights Reserved.


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M.K Gandhi is widely portrayed in and outside India as the main champion of the cause of the Untouchables (Dalits). It is, however, far from the truth. There is no doubt that he wanted the untouchability to be abolished but he, at the same time, was a strong supporter of the caste system. Supporting the caste system he said: "I believe that caste has saved Hinduism from disintegration." He also said, "To destroy the caste system and adopt the Western European social system means that Hindus must give up the principle of hereditary occupation, which is the soul of the caste system. The hereditary principle is an eternal principle. To change it is to create disorder." [1]

Obviously, the stance of Gandhi with respect to the caste system was contradictory. Since untouchability is a by-product of the caste system, it does not make any sense to advocate the abolition of the untouchability while trying at the same time to perpetuate the caste system. In fact, Gandhi was neither a friend of the Untouchables, nor was he sincere in advocating the abolition of untouchability. His actions clearly belied his precepts.

In 1933, he established Harijan (Dalit) Sevak Sangh for the welfare of the Untouchables (Dalits). But when there was a demand for the representation of the Untouchables on the Governing Board of the institution, he flatly refused it. He disapproved appointment of Mr. Agnibhaj, a distinguished personality, as a minister in the Congress cabinet in the Madhya Pradesh because he was from the Scheduled Caste.

In the Round Table Conference held in 1932, the then British Government accepted the demand of the Dalits for separate electorate. The basis of that demand was the fact that the Dalit are not Hindu but a separate nation. Gandhi started his 'fast unto death' against that plan and sabotaged it. It was a thunderous blow to the cause of the emancipation of the Dalit. Gandhi, however, showed great respect to the Dalits when he made them comparable to the cows who have divine position in Hinduism. He said: "Majority of Harijans (Dalits) can no more understand the presentation of Christianity than my cows." [2]

An examination of the role played by Gandhi apparently to serve the cause of the Dalits will clearly indicate that he was not sincere at all in showing sympathy towards them. The attitude which he really had towards the Dalits has superbly been portrayed by Dr. Ambedkar in the following words: "Hinduism is a veritable chamber of horrors. The sanctity and infallibility of the Vedas, Smritis and Shastras, the iron law of caste, the heartless law of karma and the senseless law of status by birth are to the Untouchables veritable instruments of torture which Hinduism has forged against untouchables. These very instruments which have mutilated; blasted and blighted the lives of the Untouchables are to be found intact and untarnished in the bosom of Gandhism." [3]


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References
[1] Fazlul Huq, Gandhi: Saint or Sinner (Bangalore; 1992), p. 68.
[2] M.K. Gandhi, Christian Missions: Their Place in India, (Ahmedabad: n.d.), p. 58.
[3] Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, What Congress and Gandhi have done to Untouchables?

Just my opnion, I dont sincerely believe that Gandhi was a true leader. He freed India from british empire, but its like the moon you see. There are black patches in the moon but we never notice that and just like that Gandhi does have black patches too.
Untouchability on paper does not mean anything. It has to be a general way in which people think. You think making a law helps. I dont think in Nepal when there is an interview for a job people get hired because he/she was of a superior caste. I know they get hired because they knew someone within that org. But thats true about rest of the world. I dont think thats an issue when u go to pay the bill in telecommunication office. I dont think thats and issue when u go to get a water line for your house when u do build a house. I think the issue is how to get people educated about these things and making a law, well thats not all to it.