Folks, let’s go back to our current history and talk about the ten years of Maoists insurgency that we are still trying to cope up with. Was it at all justified? Did we need that?

 If someone is looking for any justificaiton, then he should answer why still there was a need from 'dash' maoist to present a same set  of list of demands to the government lead by 'cash' maoist.

After this bloodshed do u really think  that any change happened in the life of poor, dalits and nimukha?

Only change i have observed now was Sita Daha'l can go to premier hospital in Thailand for simple kidney checkup, while a lady who was injured in Jana andolan-2 still waiting outside of Singh Durbar to meet so called 'peoples leader and prime minister'.



Also I am not supporter of any parties.

eutab4, Although I don't know enough about the political scenario in Nepal then to contribute much to the discussion, I thought one way of adding value to the discussion would be posting the 40 point demands that BRB made then. I just went through it, and some of them are pretty interesting.

I. DEMANDS RELATED TO NATIONALISM:

1) Regarding the 1950 Treaty between India and Nepal, all unequal stipulations and agreements should be removed.

2) HMG should admit that the anti-nationalist Tanakpur agreement was wrong, and the Mahakali Treaty, incorporating same, should be nullified.

3) The entire Nepal-Indian border should be controlled and systematized. Cars with Indian number plates, which are plying the roads of Nepal, should not be allowed.

4) Gorkha recruiting centers should be closed and decent jobs should be arranged for the recruits.

5) In several areas of Nepal, where foreign technicians are given precedence over Nepali technicians for certain local jobs, a system of work permits should be instituted for the foreigners.

6) The monopoly of foreign capital in Nepal's industry, trade and economic sector should be stopped.

7) Sufficient income should be generated from customs duties for the country's; economic development.

8) The cultural pollution of imperialists and expansionists should be stopped. Hindi video, cinema, and all kinds of such news papers and magazines should be completely stopped. Inside Nepal, import and distribution of vulgar Hindi films, video cassettes and magazines should be stopped.

9) Regarding NGOs and INGOs: Bribing by imperialists and expansionists in the name of NGOs and INGOs should be stopped.

II. DEMANDS RELATED TO THE PUBLIC AND ITS WELL-BEING

10) A new Constitution has to be drafted by the people's elected representatives.

11) All the special rights and privileges of the King and his family should be ended.

12) Army, police and administration should be under the people's control.

13) The Security Act and all other repressive acts should be abolished.

14) All the false charges against the people of Rukum, Rolpa, Jajarkot, Gorkha, Kavre, Sindhuphalchowk, Sindhuli, Dhanusha and Ramechap should be withdrawn and all the people falsely charged should be released.

15) Armed police operations in the different districts should immediately be stopped.

16) Regarding Dilip Chaudhary, Bhuvan Thapa Magar, Prabhakar Subedi and other people who disappeared from police custody at different times, the government should constitute a special investigating committee to look into these crimes and the culprits should be punished and appropriate compensation given to their families.

17) People who died during the time of the movement, should be declared as martyrs and their families, and those who have been wounded and disabled should be given proper compensation. Strong action should be taken against the killers.

18) Nepal should be declared a secular state.

19) Girls should be given equal property rights to those of their brothers.

20) All kinds of exploitation and prejudice based on caste should be ended. In areas having a majority of one ethnic group, that group should have autonomy over that area.

21) The status of dalits as untouchables should be ended and the system of untouchability should be ended once and for all.

22) All languages should be given equal status. Up until middle-high school level (uccha-madyamic) arrangements should be made for education to be given in the children's mother tongue.

23) There should be guarantee of free speech and free press. The communications media should be completely autonomous.

24) Intellectuals, historians, artists and academicians engaged in other cultural activities should be guaranteed intellectual freedom.

25) In both the terai and hilly regions there is prejudice and misunderstanding in backward areas. This should be ended and the backward areas should be assisted. Good relations should be established between the villages and the city.

26) Decentralization in real terms should be applied to local areas which should have local rights, autonomy and control over their own resources.

III DEMANDS RELATED TO THE PEOPLE'S LIVING

27) Those who cultivates the land should own it. (The tiller should have right to the soil he/she tills.) The land of rich landlords should be confiscated and distributed to the homeless and others who have no land.

28) Brokers and commission agents should have their property confiscated and that money should be invested in industry.

29) All should be guaranteed work and should be given a stipend until jobs are found for them.

30) HMG should pass strong laws ensuring that people involved in industry and agriculture should receive minimum wages.

31) The homeless should be given suitable accommodation. Until HMG can provide such accommodation they should not be removed from where they are squatting.

32) Poor farmers should be completely freed from debt. Loans from the Agricultural Development Bank by poor farmers should be completely written off. Small industries should be given loans.

33) Fertilizer and seeds should be easily and cheaply available, and the farmers should be given a proper market price for their production.

34) Flood and draught victims should be given all necessary help

35) All should be given free and scientific medical service and education and education for profit (private schools?) should be completely stopped.

36) Inflation should be controlled and laborers salaries should be raised in direct ratio with the rise in prices. Daily essential goods should be made cheap and easily available.

37) Arrangements should be made for drinking water, good roads, and electricity in the villages.

38) Cottage and other small industries should be granted special facilities and protection.

39) Corruption, black marketing, smuggling, bribing, the taking of commissions, etc. should all be stopped.

40) Orphans, the disabled, the elderly and children should be given help and protection.

We offer a heartfelt request to the present coalition government that they should, fulfill the above demands which are essential for Nepal's existence and for the people's daily lives as soon as possible. If the government doesn't show any interest by Falgun 5, 2052, (February 17, 1996,) we will be compelled to launch a movement against the government. *** The above demands put forth by the Samukta Jana Morcha, led by Dr. Bhattarai, were handed over to the then prime minister Sher Bahadur Deuba.

(As translated by Barbara Adams - published in People's Reveiw)

 "End doesnot justify the means". But, the war is over and lets hope anything like that never happens in our country. There are some changes in the country but it came with a huge price. We are yet to see if the change did any good or not. 

@Annehathaway: Thanks a bunch. That's what I looked at and made me think about this whole thing. 

@nepali_superman: So what you are saying is nothing has changed? And are you also suggesting by this that Maoists war should have never started? (I am not disagree or agreeing here) Are you frustrated because they didn't reach to the ideal level by now or do not even see that they have set the path for the future? And why do you think so? 

@busentiz: I agree with the huge price part, if we talk the ideal society...an Utopia. But realistically what do you think could have done to ensure the start of 'pursuit of happiness' for everybody in the country?

The value of human life has evolved with time. In prehistoric times, the value of human life was worth nothing like that of an animal that gets preyed upon in the jungle.

As we have evolved, we have put a large value on human life since life is a basic fundamental right that a human being has. In civilized world, we all know how much a value of one life is. Anyone who kills another is a criminal and will be prosecuted in the strickest of form since taking a human life is the worst crime ever.

Today the educated world knows that the value of life is priceless.

If we consider the Maslows pyramid as a heirerarchy of needs, then the right to live is a more basic need than anything else, without which nothing even matters.

So the problem with the Maoist insurgency is that they gambled with the lives of 15,000 (plus more which are not in statistics), hoping (promising) to provide a better fulfilment of needs to the rest of the population.

The fact is that they gambled with 15,000 priceless lives, promising a better future for everyone else. And after the success of their campaign, now everything is actually even worse than before.

The point is they had no right to gamble the priceless lives of people, and there is really no justification for that - specially now when the country is in much worse situation than before.

The maoists will always continue to pedal hope and people will continue to buy it till their very end. They will continue to confuse the common Nepali by using complicated Nepali words and rhetorics. They will keep coming up with excuses on why they cannot even fulfill their own demands now that they are in the government. They will keep asking for 5, 10, 50 years to make things right and people have no options but to hope for the best.

In my opinion there is no justification for the maoist insurgency.

Using peasants, innocent kids and ignorant youths as means for personal gain w/ a fake motto and agendas was never going to succeed. All it ended up doing was destroying the lives of 10s of thousands of kids whilst proving detrimental to the growth of the entire country. 

The leaders are too busy sipping through some imported whiskey, completely ignoring the supposed "sacrifices" of their "armymen" who fought the nonsensical "people's war".

In all, 20-30 thousand people (at the very least) lost their lives while kids who should've gone to school instead of learning to shoot and kill will now live the rest of their lives reliving the horror. 

Who's going to show sympathy towards the bhendas that have been abandoned by their own leaders? 

Bottomline they(Maos) are here to cash in their chips.  Our Nepali Bhedas were and still are the sore losers. They should have thought of the consequences before following the herd. Monarchy fugged them, Dooukwashi fugged them, now The Maoist fugged them.  Hopefully they(our beloved Bhedas) have learnt their lesson before conducting any more Nepal Bandh, or Chakka Jaam, or Julus(they dun seem to comprehend that this hurts Nepal more than their selfish lil agendas).  This shit has been going on for 20+yrs.  Maoists are asking for more time he he but they themselves were pretty impatient when it came to take their tittles and entittlements.  This Maoist mutiny has benefitted no one else other than the Leaders of Maoist Party. 

What we got from maoist insurgency:
- Thousands of lives were lost for NOTHING. Multiply the suffering of the people in that family.
- Thousands of people became disabled.
- Thousands of people lost their youth.
- Thousands of people lost their education because maoists were against education system during those time.
- Hundreds of schools, bridges, police posts, palaces, and buildings were burned. Most of them were never rebuilt. 
- Maoists mafia have captured many of industries with their unions and have led to decrease in overall productivity.
- Maoist cadres received billions of rupees from the government while they were in cantonment. Maoist cadres received billions of rupees from the government for leaving the cantonment. There were corruption in every single monetary transaction, food supplies, medication, clothes, their salary, etc. Maoists are now the richest party in Nepal.
- Maoists brought more division among Nepali people.
- Maoists started the era of organized/legalized looter/gunda groups with their YCLs.
- Maoists started the campaign 'Donate or Die'.
- Maoists student wings made sure that parents pay more so that their groups can get more donationas. Many students couldn't go to school due to their useless strikes.
- Maoists pushed our country back to hundreds of years.
- Thank to maoists, looters/rapists/murderers are now not afraid of justice. Simply join their party that you'll be above law. Even supreme court's verdict don't mean anything. e.g. Murderer Bal Krishna Dhungel, Murderer Prabhu Shah, murderers of Dekendra Thapa
- Murderer Prachanda is recently said to have talked for revival of parallel maoist government.
- Murderer Prachanda is recently said to have spoken for revival of para-military organization for looting the nation.

We are still fresh from this war and therefore have fresh frustration out of it...It's not to compete who has gone through more sufferings. I have been kidnapped and put in gun points (by Maoists) and seen enough inhumane tourtures by the government as well...YES, some of us have been in the heart of the encounters.

But l invite all to rise above our personal frustrations. Let's rise above our venomous beings whose best expertise is to just sit around and complain about everything of their sorroundings and fail to offer one damn single solution. Don't tell what is wrong, suggest also what is right.

Folks, I am not saying (not that I am qualified to) any of the points above are wrong....but come out of your prejudice, perhaps rather one sided view. How could have NC done better, if they initiated this? Such a bend in the history of civil right movement here is yet to be completed here. 

Just one question: Was the change needed in the Nepalese society? If so, how would you envision it be implemented?

Discuss the list of what could/should have been done?

 What's the point of talking about what could've been done? Instead, how about talking about what should be done, moving forward? 

@riddle: Agreed. Want to talk about that? Absolutely, let's do that.

So what should be done moving forward: to ensure the social justice, economic progress, and pursuit of personal happiness? 

I think most people hesitate at the thought of a discussion around nation-building due to its broad nature of complexity and chaoticism. And the hesitation is at its worst when you run into those who are nationalists, patriotic and proud - but yet they do not necessarily contribute much to the progress. And I tend to think the Maoist infiltration was most likely guided by one or all of these attributes. I believe the attributes are not an important part of bringing economic freedom to one's country. After all, prosperity does not occur by shouting national anthem (or the use of force through political means) nor does it bring social justice and economic progress you speak of eutab4 - although personal happiness would be too difficult to assess. These three factors, however, are all intertwined and complementary - and in reality, a solution that may work in the short term is almost nil - we can only initiate discussions to partake on the possibility of change in the long term. Some thoughts:

Social justice - let's look around our international community. Is there a foreign government we admire - perhaps due to its domestic policy on the treatment of its citizens in every aspect of their lives. Should we consider it as a role model? I believe social justice is an uncanny term for how we want to implement our ideals (or that of our role model if it exists) in the country we live in. So the following political ideals (and thus the government) really define our way of life and in turn social justice: democracy / republic, socialism, authoritarian, monarchy, communism. The question then becomes do we adopt to one of these or mix and match - in relation to the readiness of nepali citizens. How do we determine which particular ideal gives us the most social justice that we seek?

Economic progress - this isn't really difficult to assess but painful to achieve. Increase in GDP per capita is one of the benchmarks used to gauge economic progress. A country where GDP grows faster than its population will have increased the overall earnings of its citizen. Nepal's per capital increase over the years isn't necessarily bad when comparing to other countries - the reason its figure is very low still is because it started out at astonishingly low rate ages go. So, from an economic point of view Nepal has not relatively changed much in 30 years in comparison to, say, South Korea. Let's do the math and bit of a (really) brief analysis:      

Nepal's per capita income in:
1977 = USD 9.89
2011 = USD 1200
Avg annual growth = 15.2%

South Korea's per capital income in:
1979 = USD 343
2011 = USD 31,200
Avg annual growth = 15.1%

So, the 15% growth is about even for both countries. We would think Nepal should have done better given it was small in size (usually growth accelerates quicker when small) - but South Korea has done equally as well although it was a lot bigger. What's the reason? Exports. South Korea's phenomenal growth is attributed to its ability to match exports with its imports - to put into perspective, South Korea's trading surplus/deficit was nearly zero both in 1979 and 2011 - whereas Nepal's export were 156% of what it imported in 1977 and that dwindled down to just 18% in 2011 - that is a huge trading deficit.

So the lack of development of our products and services for the international market - not a surprise - seems to be the cause of our trivial economic progress. The socio-economic implications from any improvement of this may lead  to a contribution in the increase of middle class - a very good thing. What are the challenges then to be able to produce sustainable products and services to serve the international market?

Personal happiness - this tends to be more philosophical - but from a collective perspective I think Maslow's pyramid above (rethink's post) is about close as we can get in achieving the affects of hapiness. As I mentioned earlier in the post that all these three factors are interrelated - and as such, Maslow's pyramid doesn't hold well if we were to violate the basic 'economic life' (which depends on the outcome of social justice) principles of Robert Nozick's fairness rules:
 
1. The state must enforce laws that establish and protect private property.
2. Private property may be transferred from one person to another only by voluntary exchange.


I did warn that this stuff is complex and chaotic at the beginning.

@JavaBeans,

Great point there about Korea and Nepal. To your question "What are the challenges then to be able to produce sustainable products and services to serve the international market?" here are some observations from my own experience.

(1) Power: A reliable supply of electricity is a must for any industry - manufacturing or services. The supply of power to homes and businesses in Nepal, as we all know,  is not dependable - to put it mildly.  Even the diesel fuel that  back-up generators depend on, besides being expensive, is unreliable as the diesel supply seems to dry up every couple of months when NOC is late in paying it's dues to IOC.

(2) Internet connectivity:  Fast, reliable and affordable broadband is a prerequisite for developing the services industry. Access and speed have gradually gotten better but it  still costs far more to get a good internet connection in Nepal than in the US or  neighboring India. Sometimes, even when you pay  the higher costs, there are unexplained outages that bring businesses to a halt.

(3) Urban Infrastructure: Better managed cities are needed to attract foreign investors. A potential investor who sees heaps of trash on every street corner will get the impression of public mismanagement and not feel secure about putting his money in a country lacking basic governance.  Better roads and reliable public transportation are a must  because they allow businesses to spread out and avail of lower costs. I would also  add better sanitary conditions, water supply and pollution control to the list. Enforcing zoning laws already on the books would go a long way in combating urban sprawl and improving Kathmandu's squalid conditions.

(4) Education and standards: Except for those graduating from a handful of institutions, the majority of our graduates seem woefully unprepared for the job market. Unless we improve the standards of our colleges and universities, we will continue to produce a sub-standard  workforce, which means our products will be sub-standard and we will be out-sold in the international market.

There are probably more but these come to mind right-off .


@Eutab4

"Or was change even necessary?"

Change was inevitable. However, the manner in which we went about changing our country has proved wrong and harmful. The Maoist insurgency is a case of the medicine being worse than the disease. It solved small problems only to create far bigger and more dangerous ones.

First thing to be done: All Maoists (and yes, all. I mean it) should be hung to death before you think how to proceed anything in future. Period.

 Eutab4,"Folks, I am not saying (not that I am qualified to) any of the points above are wrong....but come out of your prejudice, perhaps rather one sided view. How could have NC done better, if they initiated this? Such a bend in the history of civil right movement here is yet to be completed here."
There is no prejudice here, we are just observers in the side line. How could NC(chors) have done better ? he he That is a shoulda, woulda, coulda question, which would take a baaraa barsaa melaa to explain. lol History of civil rights movements ? huh ! yo chaji kahaa bataa ayoo kuni ? रत्न पार्क मा जस्तो चटक हो कि, पक्कै खल्ती बाट हो... khai कुन्नि 

Many Nepali Voters and the Political Parties fail to understand why people vote for Mao or be any other communist party. Its nothing but poverty that motivates one to become a communist. Unless and until a democratic party comes forward and owns the issues of 70% poor Nepalese the communists are keep on going to enjoy the power given by the population. If you put all the votes together that is gained by the communist parties in Nepal it almost adds up to 70%, that is one crazy number. A new democratic party needs to come come forward and own every single issues that the communists are claiming to own. If you really read " Comgress, UML, Mao, and Mandale" Mukh Patra....the economic and social policies are pretty same. A new honest social democratic party is in Need in nepal and there needs to be dedicated politicians and karyakarta behind.

Moving forward, I'd say, decentralization should be our first and foremost priority. As it stands, Kathmandu is the hub of almost about everything. Imagine Kathmandu being our third/fourth 'biggest/most important' city. 

Then perhaps making amendments and developing Kathmandu itself would be a better idea. Why not make Kathmandu a bicycle friendly city? Since we tend to be so laid-back, it's not like we're in a rush anyway. Besides, Kathmandu in itself is so small that you can easily commute to shorter distances in your bicycle. Placement of portable toilets would be another fantastic idea. 

While in Sherpa Mall - the heart of the city, during my last visit, I was willing to pay 25 rupees to take a leak. As funny as it sounds, I did so w/ teary eyes as the urinals weren't flushed regularly! Spare a thought for those who need to use restrooms while walking around ratna park, especially foreigners and women! 

We all keep harping on how Nepal is 'beautiful, peaceful and huge' (sundar, shanta, bishal). Huge, definitely it is not! Especially once you consider the distance. Traveling around is a huge chore because we lack quality highways and roads. I mean, the borders of India is less than 100 miles from Kathmandu! Sure, we have treatourous hilly range and what not but still, that's not the end of it all. 

Perhaps we could learn from Indians. They didn't wait for their government to 'develop'! A bunch of industrious businessmen stood up, took initiatives. We have an even bigger advantage, we are significantly bigger. If a few of us stood up and took initiatives, I reckon people will gladly follow their suits. 

Also, bear in mind that it's 'our' current generation that's getting proper education. Compare the competition that we face as opposed to what people faced 30 years ago! How many ministers did we see in various government cabinets that had little/no education? We've had sports ministers who had little or no interest! We've had Education ministers who didn't even hold a Bachelor's Degree! 

Since Nepal's in such a dire situation, we've got a better future! We can only progress. Education, human rights, Health Services, Progress in Sports, women rights, Tourism sector - all in all, we can't go worse! We're not talking about making changes to a country that's already made progress and advancements. We're talking about developing, reshaping and changing. 

But again, it has to come from us - the ones who're willing to take these tasks upon ourselves in a selfless manner. We don't even need to enact w/ a view of doing things for others. How about doing things for ourselves w/o hurting others (at their cost) whilst helping 3-4 others? Using organic compost as fertilizers to grow crops in whatever land we might have, in our backyard or even rooftops (flower pots!), using bicycle for shorter commute, better managing our waste, promoting domestic tourism and thereby contributing to GDP are some small steps that the educated bunch can take. The government and those who're alerady poor and needy aren't gonna do shit. Can you imagine someone (a minister or head of these bodies) who has no interest in soccer or cricket working to develop these fields? Compare his contributions to a potential candidate who's a hardcore fan? 

In all, we shouldn't expect and look up these so-called netas to do shit for us. It has to come for us. We are the only ones who can build, mend and develop the country that we all love. 

Eutaby4,"Ratnapark bata lyayeko hoina, maile US ko civil right movement ko kura gareko. There were people who thought ML King was trouble maker. So when it comes to doing the right thing, someone has to be the asshole. Not everyone is going to like every right move."

lol !! MLK stood for non violence Mr Know-Et-All, whereas the Maoist have killed how many innocent people ? he he MLK might have been a trouble maker but he never killed or hurt anyone. I don't think anyone thought MLK was an asshole except for the people who were against civil rights. Well at the moment nobody seems to like the Maoist in Nepal. They are doing the exact thing they fought for like --> Nepotism, Payback to its leaders. I mean C'mon who are you kidding? Comparing MLK to Maoist ? lol !! This is another attempt at the chatak @ Ratna Park. We are not in North Korea ha ha ha Get your facts straight !!