एनात्वृतम नित्यमिदम हि सर्वम ज्ञ: कालकारो गुणी सर्वविद य: I
तेनेशितम कर्म विवर्ततेह प्रिथिव्यप्तेजोनिलखानि चिन्त्यम II २ II

It should be known that energy assumes various forms such as earth, water, light, air, and space at the command of Him who is the master of Gunas (Satva, Rajas, & Tamas) and the maker of time, who is omniscient who is pure consciousness itself, and by whom all this is ever enveloped. (Svetasvatara Upanishad)

Ujl are you sure about this "Even modern science don't have any clue about this Param Anu."

Anu = atom
Paramanu = nucleus

Ujl said "I again repeat, Vedas is not something that you understand through you logical mind. Vedas has to be experienced. "

So, how does one "experience" the Vedas?

1) One experience the Vedas through chemicals (drugs)?
2) One experiences the Vedas after a very bad life experience?
3) One experiences the Vedas as a life therapy?
4) One has to be lucky (chosen by God) to be able to experience the Vedas?
5) What do you think the reason behind you being able to experience the Vedas?

On a side note, why is India, the land of the Vedas, is so underdeveloped with so much suffering?

Ujl, I always have this question in my mind.
What's the purpose of that education[Vedas] when 99% of people in this world can't benefit out it?
I believe in only those education which can impact people.

Even if Vedas were right, as you said, I would not give any credit to them. Not even 0.00001% because they were not the one who changed this world. Real scientists, mathematician, astrologist, chemist, doctors, engineers etc did. Those people dedicated their life so that we can benefit in today's modern life.
sorry even if you were 100% right and vedas were 100% right I don't care and it's no value to me just like we care about out sun which provides us light and has been helping us sustain in this world but we rarely care about those tiny stars which provide almost no light at all.

@sajhamitra....
and yet we talk more about stars and accommodate them in our songs and poems while Sun is hardly ever mentioned.

@ Sahi baba....Paramaunu is the smallest part of the atom. Intellect cannot reach Paramanu. There is no english word for Paramanu. Atoms are the phases of Paramanu. Paramanu is the subtlest you can ever imagine and is indestructible.

@sajhamitra:
-- What's the purpose of that education[Vedas] when 99% of people in this world can't benefit out it?
>> When you take medicine, it starts its healing process. If you want to get rid of the disease from your body, you must see the doctor and use appropriate medicine. Most people in this world don't follow Vedas at all, then how can it bring any benefit. You must take the medicine to see its effect. Modern schools in Nepal and India do not follow Vedic system of education, and their minds are filled with greed based education system where everybody wants to be something in the expense of others. Vedas is holistic in nature, it wants everybody's well-being. Vedas is interested not only in your materialistic well-being but your mental and spiritual well-being also.

-- I would not give any credit to them. Not even 0.00001% because they were not the one who changed this world. Real scientists, mathematician, astrologist, chemist, doctors, engineers etc did. Those people dedicated their life so that we can benefit in today's modern life.

>> It was Aryabhatta who gave 0 (Zero) to this world. You wouldn't be able to type those words through the computer if Aryabhatta had not discovered Zero. The idea of pi, calculus, trigonometry all came from Vedic civilization. The first surgical operation was done by a Vedic physician. The distance between earth and sun was precisely calculated during Vedic times. There are systems in Vedic math through which you can multiply 985638 * 987567 in just 10 sec mentally without using pen and paper. Distillation process was first invented in India. There is still and monument in India which is made of stainless steel which is intact to this point. Ayurvedic medicine is still used all over the world as an alternate, holistic medicine. There are many interesting facts about Vedas which will take a lot of time to describe here. I suggest you read the history of Vedic civilization writing any negative comments about Vedas.

@Power_Ranger:
-- On a side note, why is India, the land of the Vedas, is so underdeveloped with so much suffering?
>> Because people don't follow Vedas at all. They go to temple, kill a goat during Dashain and offer goat to goddess Devi and eat the meat of goat to satisfy their animalistic instinct and justify their behavior by misinterpreting Vedas. Our present rituals and customs are deluded and not a pure Vedic system. If Vedas says, Asvamedha Yagya, it doesn't mean you bring a horse and kill that poor animal and sacrifice it. This is what is happening with Nepal and India. Same thing with caste system: The Varna system of Vedas is wrongly interpreted as caste. People just don't have time to follow Vedas. They go with the popular belief.

-- How does one experience Vedas?
>> How do you experience love? How do you experience food? By making it part of your system. When you make Vedas part of life, you automatically experience it. In short, you experience Vedas through contemplation and meditation.

ujl, I haven't done much research like you and I may not be intelligent like you too but I believe in science. So my apology if I offend you. I am just trying to involve in this healthy debate.
please convince me if vedas were that powerful back in the days then why only handful of people practicing vedas these days.
You keep on saying people are not following vedas and I am asking "Why?"
If vedas were that powerful and so effective then why people were not following it. According to you Vedic system should have been universal law by now but reality is its not and I am again asking "Why?"
Are you trying to conclude vedas were effective but not influential or is it so hard to follow that most people would just give up?

It's amazing how you seem to have your own definition of things

परमाणु (एटम) किसी तत्व का सबसे छोटा भाग है जिसमें उस तत्व के रासायनिक गुण निहित होते हैं। परमाणु के केन्द्र में नाभिक (न्यूक्लिअस) होता है जिसका घनत्व बहुत अधिक होता है। नाभिक के चारो ओर ऋणात्मक आवेश वाले एलेक्ट्रान चक्कर लगाते रहते हैं जिसको एलेक्ट्रान घन (एलेक्ट्रान क्लाउड) कहते हैं। नाभिक, धनात्मक आवेश वाले प्रोटानों एवं अनावेशित (न्यूट्रल) न्यूट्रानों से बना होता है। जब किसी परमाणु में एलेक्ट्रानों की संख्या उसके नाभिक में स्थित प्रोटानों की संख्या के समान होती है तब परमाणु वैद्युकीय दृष्टि से अनावेशित होता है; अन्यथा परमाणु धनावेशित या ऋणावेशित ऑयन के रूप में होता है।

@sajhamitra.....Vedas itself is so vast that it is like diving in a vast ocean. Ordinary person just don't understand where to start from. The language of Vedas is Sanskrit. How many people in Nepal and India know Sanskrit? Is Sanskrit commonly spoken language in Nepal and India? No. This is another difficulty. Even if you start reading English translation of Vedas, you might have different interpretation. This is another difficulty. For example: In Svetasvatara Upanishad it says: Na Tasya Pratima Asti. Many people translate this as "It has no Image" and use this verse saying idol worship is prohibited in the Vedas. The real translation of the verse is: "There is no one equal to it." So, there are many technical difficulties considering the codified language of Vedas itself. Many simple words and joined together to make very long words in Sanskrit, so it becomes very difficult for a layperson to begin with. If schools in Nepal and India start Sanskrit education from early childhood starting class 1, then when they reach 12th standard they would be fluent in Sanskrit and can study Vedas by themselves. Studying Vedas in Sanskrit has its own benefit. The words are arranged in such a way that correct pronunciation of Vedic mantras bring special vibrational effect in mental and physical body. You can experience this yourself. Chant the Purusha Sukta and experience the effect yourself.
Also, there are many reasons why people are not following Vedas these days. The administrative system(government) is alienating itself from the Vedas and they have not brought any systematic education system of Sanskrit in the schools starting childhood years. Learning language in old age becomes difficult and one lose interest in it. So, childhood is the best period. Government of Nepal doesn't seem to care of Sanskrit education in Nepal. This is creating Nepali children to learn only Nepali and English.
Another reason is that India and Nepal is heavily influence by western globalization these days. We like to talk in English, we like to listen English music, we like to eat burger, we like to east pizza, we like to do many western styles. As a result of this Western Influence, children are forgetting their own roots. If you ask a child where does a tomato come from? He might reply: From the grocery store! It a completely different way of life where Vedic study seems uncool and boring. What are your values in life? This value makes where you go in your life. So, people do not follow Vedas for various reasons. There is no one particular reason.

@sahibaba....The language itself clarifies what Paramanu is. Param + Anu = Paramanu.

By definition, science, is "..systematic study of ....through observation and experiment..." The cool thing about human being who practice this field of study is that most of them are inclined to be humble; in a sense that if and when theories are refuted (proved otherwise), you move on. Well, there are ample examples of egoistic scientists but that is probably a human weakness.

Philosophy, on the other hand, is a whole different ball game. I am, like many threaders here who acknowledged being ignorant about vedas. But my curiosity brings me here to ask this observation or phenomenon. What does it take to change a faith based stance? To change a philosophy, if you may allow me to call it philosophy.

I like calling myself an 'atheist'. I've watched in vain, dozens of videos, where new age verbose and articulate proponents of god-less morality, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris et al, failing to convince countless religious mullahs and pundits to acknowledge that not believing in god is as sane as believing in it. So this argument is non-nonsensical I guess. Who can change any of the threaders' mind, here, in what each of us believe in. As ridiculous as I think the subject of religious texts and scriptures are, I will be banished and burned with verbal abuse if I mention it here or in any other passionate forums like this. And I did.
Anyways, it's better not to question the prophets, the illuminated, the haloed because who am I and what persuasive logic do I have? So the point is not to convince or persuade you to believe in anything that I myself do. The question is how did I get here, to think the way I do. Can I think like a Christian, a Muslim, a Hindu? How can I be convinced. I am so damn stubborn in what I believe in. I hit the wall in my persuading to the Padre (पाद्री) that God doesn't exist. He thinks I am a lost soul and I think the same about him. He says, one day I will fall in my knees and pray to god (because something personal would've happened to me that'd require god's attention). And this could be any god, a Zoroastrian god. The point being how stupid and naive I'd have been not to have seen the light.

The veda power is a hoax unless you can show something for real. Can you show one example of how veda power is doing something amazing in this time and age?

Funtush. Not all of it is hoax. We just have to remember the age and context they were written in.
One example: Meditation and Yoga. Scientific community is finally realizing the benefits of meditation and Yoga.

Ujl, you first go and fight with Muslims/Jews/Christians/Buddhists/Etc and figure out which is the true religion/god. If you win, you then come fight with us here in Sajha.

Wow, it's an engaging concept. A hundred years ago information about others' culture and religion was not flowing (or shared) the same way it does today. My grandfather might not have been as much knowledgeable about Islam or Zionism or even Zoroastrian as the above threader mentioned. I am just wondering how religion and philosophy will shape in the next fifty to hundred years. I had never given a thought..not that it is utterly important. Just something to think about.

@Uji: As you said the modern government and society has not given higher priority to vedas. So, what was India and Nepal doing before 100 years back. I remember my grandfather saying, he has to go to India Banaras for study. So, what was stopping 100 years back. When the European country and US was building factories and plane, what was our highly culture vedas people doing. Were they confining their education on themself. I know there are few people like vivekananadan who did spread few words. Was there only few knowledgeable people then. Was is not able to influence the people? Remember Bhanu bhaka translated ramayana into Nepali and it has not been long time.

Ujl says the true Vedic philosophy is not being practiced in Hindu majority countries like Nepal and India. That is true. It is also true the likes of ISIS/Al Qaeda also say the same thing about Sharia law in Muslim majority countries. Somehow, Ujl/ISIS/Al Qaeda think implementing the Vedas/Sharia will solve all problems. They don't realize that we're here because we already tried those. That doesn't mean what we have today is perfect because it is not. But come up with something innovative and not the same tried and failed philosophies. I'll grant you this, religion can give one a sense of purpose and get him/her out of depression. But, that doesn't mean it can solve all the world's problem. That doesn't mean they can claim to know everything including God.

Question: Why did Sanskrit disappear?
Answer: Because it couldn't survive evolution game.
Question: Why is religion still here?
Answer: Because it still has value to offer to society.

@ Ujl

i totally believe in science. it fancys me. all those calculations and chemical product is just my thing. i think there is nothing on this would without science.
BUT when u talked about Vedas i believe in them too. Everyone is arguing that Vedas cannot solve their everyday problem and this would had come to end now how vedas gonna save it. i def don't have answers for all those but Vedas are extremely powerful.. believe me i am not BS here as i told i love science but i will never say vedas is crap not that i am totally religious person either. if you truly read vedas like Ujl said most of the modern science innovations had been already been discovered way back in time. the thing that baffles me is why did those things not continue and we have way better would around us. vedas had it that people were able to control mind all about atomic explosion, flying, surgical transplant and most interesting thing for me about time and space. Thats the most interesting thing in vedas is about time. i would love to discuss more on vedas and gita @ujl

one question to everyone..anyone remembers what is THE very first word in Mahabharata..? its very interesting

One interesting theory,

what the vedas has written is true. But not in this planet, some other planet. The alien came to earth and gave people a way to live. Then the alien gave some interesting fact about their research and some of the inventions they already have in their planet. It is also possible that those alien taught some of these to the rishi munis and those somehow educated people wrote about those things in the book. Sanskrit may not be the language developed by indian. It may have been provided by alien.
Do not know but suddenly this thought came to my mind. If aliens are smart and much more advanced than us, definitely this is possible. They can travel in the speed of light. And to do that, they need to know the information about the atoms and stuffs. Then only they will be able to fly at this speed.
There is also highly possible that we human being do lots of research about new habitation and stuffs. Same way some aliens maybe researching on us.
Let me know if someone in Sajha has somewhat similar thinking.
Regards

Gonecrazy ...you are breaking our honor code. First Bono and now you. Yes we come from Zooropa. That's it. Don't give them any more clue.
Also, zytlix says hi!

I am all for Vedas, but I think they have their own respective position where they should be commended. Some of the Vedas are the result of extensive work of study and perhaps research.
They have provided answers to life's philosophical quests as well as other subjects such as astrology, health, finance/economy and to some extent, science.

But to say Vedas had the understanding to predict many of the phenomenon we are experiencing now is to derive different meaning from Vedas. I don't think Vedas claimed to do so, nor should it be interpreted to do so.

Science on the other hand is always in a quest to update itself. We discover new things and come up with new conclusions. What fascinates me is how the theoretical world of science extends to the practical one - like the atomic bomb or space exploration. Equally fascinating is how predictions that the scientists made are coming true now. Take for example Einstein's prediction that since light bends due to gravity (in the simplest term), we might see multiple images of the same heavenly bodies (stars) at one instance. This is what Scientists discovered recently; they saw same supernova exploding four times. This is because light - which scattered and travelled through different galaxy and had different bends- travelled to our telescope through four different paths. It's fascinating to think that Einstein could predict this phenomenon decades ago when we didn't have technology to confirm the theory - let alone observe anything.

To say Vedas had this capability is to insult both Science and Vedas. Vedas never claimed to have it, that was not its objective.