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नेवारभित्र दलित–गैरदलित: बोलीमा छैन, व्यवहारमा अझै बाँकी छ
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Posted on 07-03-16 6:12
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नेवारभित्र दलित–गैरदलित: बोलीमा छैन, व्यवहारमा अझै बाँकी छ
‘समाजमा छैन भने पनि टोलछिमेकमा विभेद अझै बाँकी छ’ असार १९, २०७३- घटना १ : ललितपुर ठेचोका एक माली (नेवार) युवाले महर्जन युवतीसँग प्रेम विवाह गरे । तर, विवाहको १० वर्षसम्म पनि केटी पक्षले ज्वाइँलाई घरमा भित्र्याएको छैन । यसैले ससुरालीको देवाली गुठीमा ज्वाइँले प्रवेश पाएका छैनन् । केटाको घरमा महर्जन युवतीलाई बुहारीका रूपमा भित्र्याइए पनि दम्पतीबाट जन्मिएको छोरालाई भने माली गुठीले गुठीयारका रूपमा स्वीकारेको छैन । गुठीमा भित्र्याए गुठी देवता ‘गु: द्य:’ रिसाउने र सम्पूर्ण गुठीयारलाई नराम्रो हुने अन्धविश्वासका कारण उनलाई गुठीयार नबनाइएको हो । घटना २ : लगनखेल क्षेत्रका एक वज्राचार्य युवाले केही वर्षअघि देउला कुलकी केटीसँग विवाह गरे । तर, जब उनले दुलही घरमा भित्र्याउन खोजे, परिवारले मानेन । यसले झगडाकै रूप लियो । अदालतमा मुद्दा पर्यो । यो मुद्दा अझै टुंगिएको छैन । घरमा भित्रिन नदिएपछि उनीहरू बाहिर डेरा लिएर बसे । अहिले पनि यो दम्पती आफ्ना छोराछोरीसहित डेरामै बस्छन् । गुभाजूको गुठीमा नभित्र्याएपछि उनीहरूले धर्मसमेत परिवर्तन गरिसकेको स्थानीय बताउँछन् । घटना ३ : नेवार बस्तीहरूमा ‘नेवा: खाजा घर’ प्रचलित छन् । तर, बस्तीमाझका यस्ता खाजाघरमा ‘तल्लो’ मानिने नेवारले खाजा खान आए उसले खाएको भाँडा आफैं माझ्नुपर्छ । यस्तो खाजाघर ‘तल्लो जातका’ मानिनेले खोले त्यसमा ‘माथिल्लो जातका’ खान आउन हच्किन्छन् । घटना ४ : नेवार समुदायका महिलाले नाक छेडदैनन् र फुली पनि लगाउँदैनन् । तर, समुदायमा हेपिने वर्गमा परेपछि देउला समाजका महिलाले नाक छेडेर गहना लगाउने गरेको पाइन्छ । त्यसको एक उदाहरण हुन्– लगनखेल थटिटोलकी मीना देउला । सरकारले सूचीकृत गरेका ५९ आदिवासी जनजातिमध्ये नेवार आर्थिक हिसाबले उन्नत समूहमा पर्छ । व्यापार व्यवसायमा अब्बल मानिने यो जातिमा पनि लिच्छविकालदेखि सुरु भएको जात र वर्ण व्यवस्थाको प्रभाव पाइन्छ । कतिसम्म भने यो जाति भित्रै ब्राह्मण, क्षत्री, वैश्य र शुद्रजस्तै ४ तहमा विभाजन गरेको पाइन्छ । नेवार समुदायमै रहेका देउला, पुजारी, जलारी, कुचीकार, च्याम्खललाई भने दलितको सूचीमा राखिएको छ । राष्ट्रिय दलित आयोगले नै यिनलाई दलित मानेको छ । नेवारको छाता संस्थाका रूपमा नेवा: देय दबू छ । यो संस्थाअन्तर्गत नेवार जातिभित्रका २८ जातीय संस्था र संगठन सदस्य छन् । दबूका महासचिव माइलाबाबु देउला नेवार जातिभित्र दलित नभएको तर जातीय विभेद भने रहेको बताउँछन् । ‘समाजमा छैन भने पनि टोलछिमेकमा विभेद अझै बाँकी छ,’ देउला समाजका केन्द्रीय अध्यक्षसमेत रहेका माइलाबाबु भन्छन्, ‘दबूको माध्यमबाट सामाजिक विभेद न्यूनीकरण गर्ने काम भइरहेको । समतामूलक समाज निर्माणमा हामी आफैं संघर्ष गर्दै छौं ।’ दबूका सचिव जितेन्द्रविलास वज्राचार्यको भनाइ पनि उस्तै छ । नेवार समाजभित्रै विभेद रहेको उल्लेख गर्दै उनी भन्छन्, ‘रोटीबेटी चलेको छैन । सार्वजनिक भोज सँगै चल्छ, तर गुठीको भोजमा अरू सहभागी हुन पाउँदैनन्, बिहेवारी पनि चल्दैन ।’ दबूका अध्यक्ष नरेश ताम्राकार दबूको पहलमै विभेद अन्त्यको घोषणा भएको बताउँछन् । ‘पुरानो बस्तीमा विभेद अलि अलि बाँकी छ,’ उनले भने, ‘जयस्थिति मल्लको विभेदकारी व्यवस्था र शब्द हामीलाई स्वीकार्य छैन । त्यसैले नेवारभित्रको जातीय विभेद अन्त्य भएको सार्वजनिक घोषणा गरिसकेका छौं । आपसमा अन्तरघुलन बढेको छ ।’ अधिकारकर्मी मल्ल के सुन्दर इतिहासमा विभेद गरिए पनि अहिलेको विश्वपरिवेशमा मानवअधिकारविरोधी विभेद कुनै पनि जातिमा हुन नहुने बताउँछन् । ‘जो विभेदमा परे उनीहरू स्वयंले हामी नेवार समुदायको उपजाति हौं, हामी आदिवासी जनजाति हौं तर दलित होइनौं भनेर राष्ट्रिय सम्मेलन गरेर घोषणापत्र जारी गरिसकेका छन्,’ सामाजिक सुधारभन्दा पनि व्यक्तिगत लाभमा आरक्षण रणनीति घुसेको उल्लेख गर्दै उनी भन्छन्, ‘तर, सीमित व्यक्तिले दलितको कोटामा सुविधा लिने र राजनीतिक दलहरूले समेत त्यसलाई प्राथमिकता दिने प्रवृत्तिले नेवार दलित भनेर खण्डित गर्ने काम भइरहेको छ ।’ राष्ट्रिय जनगणना २०६८ को तथ्यांकले नेपालमा नेवारको संख्या १३ लाख २१ हजार ९ सय ३३ देखाएको छ । जुन कुल जनसंख्याको ४ दशमलव ९ प्रतिशत हो । नेवारहरूले संघीय प्रदेश बन्दा ‘नेपालमण्डल’ लाई ‘नेवा: राज्य’ बनाइनुपर्ने माग राख्दै आएका छन् । नेवारको प्रमुख पहिचान गुठी परम्परालाई मानिन्छ । सामाजिक, धार्मिक, आर्थिक, पारिवारिक सम्बन्धहरू गुठीअन्तर्गत सञ्चालन हुन्छन् । वंश र परम्पराको निरन्तरताको टुंगो पनि गुठी र त्यसका प्रमुख थकालीबाट हुने गर्छ । गुठीका सदस्यलाई गुठीयार भनिन्छ । गुठीयारको घर परिवारमा हुने देवाली, व्रतबन्ध, विवाहदेखि मृत्यु संस्कारसम्मका क्रियाकलाप गुठीले गर्छ । विभेदको जरो नेवारलाई बहुधर्मावलम्बी जाति मानिन्छ । नेवारभित्र हिन्दु र बौद्ध धर्म मान्नेका अलावा मुस्लिम र क्रिस्चियनसमेत छन् । नेवार महिलाले धेरै थरी गरगहना पहिरिए पनि नाक छेडदैनन् । तर सामाजिक भेदका कारण नाक छेड्ने महिला भेटिन्छन् । विशेषगरी ‘दलित’ मानिने समुदायमा यो चलन बढेको छ । विभेदबाट मुक्ति पाउन केहीले धर्म परिवर्तन गर्ने गरेको पनि बताइन्छ । कतिपय उपल्लो जातका युवाले कथित तल्लो जातिकी युवतीसँग विवाह गरे समाजबाट बहिष्कृत हुने, बुहारीलाई कुलमा सामेल नगरिने गरेको पाइन्छ । यस्तै, कथित तल्लो जातिमा आफ्नी छोरीचेलीले विवाह गरे माइती पक्षले सधैंका लागि त्याग्ने गरेका पनि छन् । नेवारभित्रकै तल्लो जाति भनिनेमा विवाह गर्दा जस्तो विभेद गरिन्छ त्यस्तै विभेद विजातीय बिहेमा बरु नहुने जानकारहरू बताउँछन् । ब्राह्मण, राई वा क्षत्रीजस्ता अन्य जातिमा विवाह गर्नेलाई प्रत्यक्ष भेदभाव गरेको खासै नभेटिने उनीहरू बताउँछन् । पत्रकार दबूका अध्यक्ष श्रीकृष्ण महर्जन बोलीमा विभेद नभए पनि व्यवहारिक रूपमा छुवाछूत रहेको बताउँछन् । सामाजिक विभेदलाई नयाँ पुस्ताले बेवास्ता गर्ने गरे पनि अभिभावकको आज्ञा वा भावनालाई चिरेर अगाडि बढ्न नसकेको उनको कथन छ । समाज परिवर्तन हुने क्रम देखिएको उल्लेख गर्दै महर्जन भन्छन्, ‘नयाँ पुस्ताले प्रयास गरेका छन् भने कुनै गुठीले कट्टरपनलाई खुकुलो पारेको पनि भेटिन्छ ।’ समाजमा सकारात्मक परिवर्तन आउनेमा उनी आशावादी छन् । विभेद अन्त्यको घोषणा नेवार समुदायभित्र विभेद हुनुहुँदैन भन्ने सर्वत्र आवाज उठदै आएको छ । त्यही विभेद अन्त्य गर्न विभिन्न ६५ थरी नेवारभित्रका जातीय संस्थाका प्रमुखले एक साथ २०६६ पुसमा ललितपुरको पुल्चोकमा नेवार जातिबीच भेदभाव, छुवाछूत छैन, भए अन्त्य भएको मौखिक प्रतिबद्धता उद्घोष गरेका थिए । त्यही समुदायका प्रमुखले २०६८ पुसमै काठमाडौंको वसन्तपुरस्थित महादेव–पार्वती डबलीअघि लिखित रूपमै विभेद अन्त्य भएको घोषणापत्र सार्वजनिक गरेका थिए । इतिहासमा वर्ण व्यवस्था इतिहास तथा संस्कृतिविद् प्राध्यापक डा. पुरुषोत्तमलोचन श्रेष्ठका अनुसार पुरातात्त्विक प्रमाणका आधारमा पाँचौं शताब्दीदेखि वर्ण र जाति व्यवस्था सुरु भएको देखिन्छ । लिच्छविकालमा ब्राह्मण, क्षत्री, वैश्य र शुद्र गरी ४ वर्ण र १८ जात भनेर सुरु भएको थियो । ‘मानदेवका नाति वसन्तदेवको थानकोटको अभिलेखमा चार वर्ण, १८ जातका मान्छेलाई कुशल मंगल सोधेर सरकारी आज्ञा जारी गरेको पाइएको छ,’ उनी भन्छन् । १४ औं शताब्दीमा जयस्थिति मल्लले ४ वर्ण र ३६ जातलाई थप व्यवस्थित गरेको इतिहासविद् श्रेष्ठ सुनाउँछन् । ‘जयस्थिति मल्लले जातीय व्यवस्था सुरु गरेको नभई व्यवस्थित मात्र गरेका थिए,’ त्यसबखतको आँखाले सही उत्तर आउने उल्लेख गर्दै उनले भने, ‘समाजको मेरुदण्ड सामाजिक वर्ण व्यवस्थामा आधारित थियो । त्यही वर्णले जात छुट्टियो । जातअनुसार पेसा निर्धारण भयो ।’
प्रकाशित: असार १९, २०७३ http://bit.ly/29fuFEK
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Rajesh BP
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Posted on 07-03-16 8:06
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I realize Newar community is like the 'dhood-bhaat' of Nepal's ethnic groups. Bahun-Chhetris wrongly place all Newars as one single group as their Vaishyas (merchant class) where as Mongolian Janajatis also wrongly place all Newars as one single group as Janajati (indigenous class) when the truth of the matter is, they are neither of those and at the same time both of those. If you just bother to do a little reading of our history, you will have clearer picture as no other ethnic group of Nepal represents Nepal's historical, demographic, cultural, religious diversity as much as Newar community does.
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magorkhe1
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Posted on 07-03-16 5:11
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बोलि भन्दा चर्को ब्यबहार हुन्छ ब्रो ले के भन्न खोजेको ?
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nepalibabuktm
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Posted on 07-03-16 11:29
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उसले भन्न खोजेको यही हो कि गैर-नेवार ले सम्पुर्ण नेवार समुदाय लाई केवल एउटा सिंगो जात को रुपमा हेर्ने गर्छ जसले गर्दा यो 'कन्फ्युजन'। सबै नेवार साहुजु हुन्, व्यापार गर्छन्, जात अनुसार त्यसैले वैश्य हुन भन्ने गलत धारणा एक धार - तर ऐतिहासिक रुपमा नेवार समुदाय अन्तर्गत का पाँचथरी श्रेष्ठ, उराय (तुलाधर ताम्राकार आदि) र बाँडा (शाक्य) मात्र ले व्यापारलाई आफ्नो पारिवारिक पेशा बनाएका हुन । २५-३० वटा जात भएको समुदाय मा यि ३-४ ले व्यापार गर्छन भन्दै मा सबैले गर्छन भन्ने सामान्यकरण generalization भ्रामक र गलत बुझाई हो । त्यसैगरी अर्को पाटो ले नेवार त मंगोलियन हो, बुद्ध वा प्राकृतिक धर्म मान्ने, जात-भात नमान्ने जनजाती हो भन्नमा कम्मर कस्छन । यो पनि उत्तिकै गलत हो किनभने नेवार हरु को मुख हेर्दै मा थाहा हुन्छ सबै नेवार मंगोल होईनन, उनिहरुमा आर्य नस्ल पनि छ। उनिहरु हिन्दू होईनन भने त्यत्रो मठ मन्दिर सभ्यता इतिहास कुन चाँही जन्तु आएर बनाईदिए त ? उनिहरु जनजती हो भने किन उनिहरु नै नेपाल को आर्थिक सामाजिक र पहुँच पाएको तथ्यांकमा सधैँ सबैभन्दा उच्च स्थान मा गनिन्छन ? जनजाती नै हुन भने राजोपाध्याय र श्रेष्ठ हरुले किन ब्रतबंध गरी जनै भेर्छन ? पक्का बौध मानिने वज्राचार्य ले किन संस्कृत मा मन्त्र जप्छन ?
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magorkhe1
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Posted on 07-04-16 11:10
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तेसो भए ब्रो यहि नियम अरु जात र जातिलाई ( छेत्री बाहुन , ठकुरी आदि इत्यादि पहाड देखि मदेश सम्मका लाइ ) लागु हुन्छ हुदैन ?
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nepalibabuktm
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Posted on 07-04-16 11:40
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के कुन नियम भन्नु भएको, मैले बुझिन ।
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shiva_linga
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Posted on 07-04-16 4:38
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newars are the intellectual.economic,social and political elite of nepal. and they are so good at it they even get reservation as janajati . even during shah and rana period, high caste newars were counted as tagadhari and behavied as par with ruling thakuri ,khas elite. and after it too they have over-proportionately represented themselves in politics,beuraucracy,trade and commerce, arts, music and pretty much every other field.
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nepalibabuktm
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Posted on 07-05-16 10:14
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Agree with you in all points. What I don't get is why do the Newar leaders keep perpetuating this false notion that ALL Newars are Adivasi hence automatically Janajati. Rajopadhya Brahmins claim to have come after 15th century, most Chathariyas (Kshatriyas?) claim to have come after 14th century, Manandhars claim to have come after 8/9th century, Shakyas claim descent of Shakyas of Koliya (of Buddha's clan), Rajbhandaris and Vaidyas come from Assam and came in 14th century, Pradhans come from Rajasthan and came only in 16th century, Khadgis come from South India, etc etc. They don't even pretend to be Kathmandu's Adivasi group. Except an important group - JYAPU who claim (and undoubtedly are) the indigenous people. But just on the basis of one group, the entire community gets a free pass of being called Janajati/Adivasi. There is no doubt they have been discriminated against by the state - Newari language was severely banned in the Rana time. But so have the Karnali Khas people been thrown under the bus repeatedly by the ruling elites. So does it mean the ENTIRE Khas people also get the sorry letter? Of course not!
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nepalibabuktm
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Posted on 07-05-16 10:17
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Look at this gene mixup of Newars. I mean which other ethnic group of Nepal can boast such amount of racial heterogeneity?? Newars are NEVER a single race or caste or limited as socially or economically disadvantaged. C5 – 3% (South India) H1a – 6.1% (Central Asia – Kazakh) J2a – 6.1% (Arab, semite) J2b – 6.1% (South-East Europe – Greek, Italian) J2b2 – 1.5% (Jew?) O3a5a – 21.2% (East Asia – Japan, Korea, Burma) R2 – 25.9% (Baluch – Pakistan, Afgan) R1a1 – 25.7% (Eastern Europe – Khotons, Pashtun, Brahmins) R1b1 – 10.6% (Western Europe – Spain, Irish, French)
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Rajesh BP
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Posted on 07-05-16 10:51
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I am a Newar, I have never considered myself as Janajati - nor will I ever will. My forefathers ruled this great kingdom, made its riches, served the people, protected our great dharma, Fuck those who force this appellation on me. This is not to say being Janajati is anything bad or dishonorable. But I don't want a bunch of idiot freeloaders quota wish to belie my own history and belief and force them against my wish or desire.
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Rahuldai
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Posted on 07-05-16 12:30
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नेपाल भाषी अर्थात नेवारी बोल्ने समुदायको भएकोले म पनि केही कुरा राख्न चाहन्छु । १. नेवार जाति , जनजाति , आदिबासी , मूल बासी हुँदै होइन , नेवार नेपाल भाषा बोल्नेहरुको समुदाय हो । २. वर्ण विन्यास अनुसार कै ब्राम्हण, क्षेत्री , वैश्य , शुद्र नेवार भित्रै छन् । ३. आजीवन पनचाङ्ग निर्णय समितिका अध्यक्ष रहेका ड़ा मंगल राज जोशी ब्राम्हण हुन् , नेवार भनिनु गलत थियो । उपत्यकाका जोशीहरु तागाधारी हुन् , पंचांग निर्माण , जन्म कुण्डली बनाउने , ज्योतिष शात्रका ज्ञाता जोशीहरु चाहि नेवार हुने , अरु जोशी ब्राम्हण हुने तर्क संगत छैन । ४. पशुपतिमा मूल शिबलिंग र वासुकी मन्दिर बाहेकको अन्य अनिगिन्ती मठ मन्दिरका पूजारी भण्डारी हुन् । कालान्तरमा राज भण्डारी भए । आधुनिक नेवार समुदायमामा ६ थरि श्रेष्ठ । भण्डारी र राज भण्डारी एकै हुन् , वंसज को इतिहास खोतले हुन्छ । हिन्दु धर्मालम्बीहरुको पबित्र स्थलमा ब्राम्हणमा पनि अति शुद्ध ब्राम्हण को खोजीमा दक्षिण भारतका भट्टहरु नेपाल भित्रिएको कथा हैन । ५. राजकर्णिकार जो पेशाले मिठाइ बनाउने समुदाय केरलाका ब्राम्हण हुन् । प्रख्यात नियात्रा लेखक घनश्याम राजकर्णिकार ( कृष्ण पाउरोटी - नेपालको पहिलो पाउरोटी - का मालिक ) आफैले हाम्रा वंसज केरलाका ब्राम्हण हुन् , शिद्धि नरसिंह मल्लको पालामा राजाको भान्छेको रुपमा नेपाल आएका भनेर आफ्नो पुस्तकमा लेखका छन् । ६. क्रिकेटर ज्ञानेन्द्र मल्ल ( काठमाडौका मल्ल राजाका सन्तति ) चाहि नेवार हुने, अनि हेम बहादुर मल्ल ठकुरी हुने यो पनि कुतर्क मात्र हुन् । इतिहासलाई खोतल्दै जाने हो भने मल्लहरुको उदगम एकै ठाउबाट भएको छ । उपत्यकामा राज गर्ने ले नेवारी बोले , जुम्ला हुम्लाका ले खस भाषा ( कालान्तर मा नेपाली भाषा ) बोले । ७. त्यसै गरी कर्माचार्य (कर्म +आचार्य ) राजाको कुल देवता तलेजु भवानीका पुजारी हुन् , ब्राम्हण हुन् । बज्राचार्य = बज्र+ आचार्य , बज्रयानी बौद्ध समुदायका पुजारी हुन् । त्यसैले नेवार समुदाय भित्र सबै छन् , दलित पनि छन् । तर जाती, जनजाती , आदिवासी , मूलबासी चाहि भन्न मिल्दैन । गुठी नेवार समुदायको पहिचान हो, त्यै भएर गुठीको डरले अन्तरजातीय बिबाह दुर्लभ थियो , अस्वीकार्य नै थियो । समय परिवर्तन भैसक्यो तै पनि छुवाछुत र बर्ग विभेदको अवशेष छ नै । रातारात सबै परिवर्तन हुने सक्दैन । आफ्नो समुदाय बलियो भयो भने शिक्षित भयो भने पुरै समाजको नजर बदल्न सकिन्छ भन्ने उदाहरण पनि छ ।कुनै बखत पानी नचल्ने जात कहलिएको एउटा समुदाय आज नेवार भित्र सबै भन्दा शिक्षित, उन्नत र शक्तिशाली समुदाय भएको छ । अस्तु !
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NepaliBudho
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Posted on 07-05-16 1:44
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यो मुजी साझा का जाठा हरुलाई जातभात को किरा ले टोक्न कहिले छोड्ने हो कुनी? मुजी हरु America बसेर पनि जातभात का कुरा गरेर अफुलाई ठुला जात भन्नेहरु अझैपनि गोबर मा किरा फसताए जस्तै फस्ताउदै छन्.
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sidster
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Posted on 07-05-16 2:38
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I have been saying that newar is not a tribe but a culture for the longest time. No one including newars believe me. Newar was the culture of kathmandu valley, the language spoken was Newari, and whoever migrated to that valley became a newar few generation later. Sort of like whatever culture or tribe migrates to the USA the culture loses all the old culture and assimilates into US culture within 3-4 generations. Valley had a history of migration since the time of Lichhabi (supposedly migrants from India) That is why when you look at the range of faces in newar you see the naak chucche bahun, kaalo tarai basi..and slant eyes mongloids within it. Only among newars i see a kalo mongloid face. Bhotya bhanne ko marshya bhanne newar aafai confused dekhchu ma ta. Newars have the same problems of jaat bhaat as Tarai basi and Pahade. Only in nepal we discriminate within our own and outside our own at the same time. I guess we manage to do inter-racism and intra-racism at the same time. But its easier for political reasons for only bahuns to get blamed for racism. Even though it is easier for a Rai to blame bahun for discrimination, they think its a privilege to discriminate the limbu. Gurungs pulling the same crap on Magars. Tharus probably doing the same thing amongst themselves. Each group discriminates within the group and then groups together to discriminate another group. The layers and layers of discrimination only found in south asia i guess. Anyway...newa is a great culture and l love newa culture as a Nepali.
Last edited: 05-Jul-16 08:42 PM
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Rajesh BP
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Posted on 07-05-16 10:34
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@rahulvai some good insights and details. But I would like to correct you on a few points. Newar Joshis, Karmacharya, Gurubacharya, Rajbhandari, Baidya - are not Brahmin by caste, they all belong to Chathar or Chha-thari which is Newari meaning for क्षत्री. Even though they may have functional roles that is usually done by Brahmin caste (like astrology, priestly, ayurvedic teachers), the fact of the matter is Nepal Valley always had very low population of actual Brahmin (Panch-Gauda, Yujurvedi) population. This is why those Brahmins allocated these occupation to select Kshatriya status clans. They traditionally only marry with other Chha-thari clans like Malla, Pradhan, Singh, Amatya, Maskey, Kayastha, Hada, Onta, Patrabanshi, Rajbanshi, etc. etc. who had explicitly Kshatriya (ruling, warrior) background in the past. All Chha-tharis are supposed to be tagadhaari (who wear the janai.) There are some key differences between Newar and Khas - like Joshi of Khas people are still Bahun even though considered slightly lesser than Upadhyaya and believed to be off-spring of widow Brahmins. Newar Joshis too are believed to have been off-spring of widow Brahmins, but for some reason they are not considered as Brahmin, their caste has fallen down one whole varna to Chathari/Chhetri. Similarly, Rajbhandari of Kathmandu (Kashyap gotri) had been Bhandari priests of Pashupati whereas Rajbhandari of Bhaktapur (Bharadwaj gotri) had always been involved as ministers, kajis, karnel, hakims, etc. (i.e. key administrative positions.) So even among the same clan, you have such differences - which is not like what Khas Bahun/Chhetri people have.
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Rajesh BP
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Posted on 07-05-16 11:02
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"क्रिकेटर ज्ञानेन्द्र मल्ल ( काठमाडौका मल्ल राजाका सन्तति ) चाहि नेवार हुने, अनि हेम बहादुर मल्ल ठकुरी हुने यो पनि कुतर्क मात्र हुन् । इतिहासलाई खोतल्दै जाने हो भने मल्लहरुको उदगम एकै ठाउबाट भएको छ । उपत्यकामा राज गर्ने ले नेवारी बोले , जुम्ला हुम्लाका ले खस भाषा ( कालान्तर मा नेपाली भाषा ) बोले ।" I think I am repeating the same sentiment as nepalibabuktm has said previously, but I too find this uniquely hypocritical. Khas people get the free pass of calling themselves by their caste identity. Khas Mallas, Shahis, Chands write "Thakuri" in the end of their names but Newar Mallas, Amatyas, Pradhans, etc. who are also Thakuri by their caste, used to be called 'Thakura Dev' in the Malla period and called Thaku juju (Thakur raja) today in Newari have to suffice only by 'Newar'? But if any of this topic comes up in relation to Newars, then the same Khas people (mostly) start saying pheri jaat bhaat ko kura uthayo, ahile ko jamana ma ni jaat ko kura garcha, etc. etc.
Last edited: 06-Jul-16 11:13 AM
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shiva_linga
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Posted on 07-06-16 9:50
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@ rajeshbp, but arent the khas and newar mallas different? as far as i know malla was a honoric title like khan or mirza or dewan so the khas lords and mallas of tirahut put malla titles when they rose to power like the shah thakuris.also when these terai mallas came to nepalmandal ,they rose to the power of sovereign rulers whereas the mallas of khas province were also called challas.so the ktm mallas are actually vedic high castes of north indian plains whereas the khas malla are khas aristocracy. also, i have not seen malla,chand or shahis putting thakuri at the end of their names. saugat malla,gyanendra malla, lokendra b. chand,nir shah etc are some examples. but some thakuris just write thakuri as their surnames like suraj singh thakuri.rajesh hamal is also thakuri but i havent seen any of hamal with thakuri added to his surname.
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Rajesh BP
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Posted on 07-06-16 11:01
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@shiva linga You know so much, it's great to have a proper discussion and sharing-learning of information. Yes, Malla was a title then. The later Mallas of Kathmandu Valley are all descended from Hari Simha Dev who was Karnat dynasty king of Mithila. The history of Karnat kings goes from Mithila to Delhi to Konkan to Ayodhya (Ram's birthplace) and Mallas themselves stylised themselves as Raghuvamshi (there still is a surname among the Chatharis with this surname which means Raghu's dynasty.) Also note that Konkan is in South India where the Gopal-rajvamshawali states that Hari Simha Deva did indeed come along with few specific castes like Brahmin (today's Rajopadhyaya), Vaidya, Bhandari (today's Rajbhandari), Rathaur (today's Gongal, Piya, certain other Bhaktapure Chatharis ) and among others the warrior Nayar caste. If you do not know already, google Newar and Nayar similarity. Some believe Nayar turned into 'Naya' - the Newari word for the butcher caste consisting of Khadgis, Shahis of today. The Malla kings adopted the title of Malla as a continuation of the previous dynasty (pre 14th century) who called themselves as Malla because Malla title belonged to a prestigious 'mahajanpad' ruling Vedic clans; those Mallas ruled around Mithila/Bihar in the earlier period under Maurya - Gupta empires. So it was basically a matter of prestige to adopt the word. The Khas Mallas of the Karnali valley did exactly the same thing precisely because of the same reason. However, the Khas Mallas and Nepalmandal (Newar) Mallas were/are of different backgrounds. Newar Mallas were Maithili-speakers with Maithili background and had a bigger amount of 'Indian' blood since they mostly married into princes and princesses brought from present Indian states. They and their ruling Hindu Chathari/Kshatri clans that immigrated to Nepal are the biggest influencers of 'Sanskritization'/Brahminical hold of the already existing indigenous Newars. Khas Mallas were Pahari-Khasbhasa speakers with distinct intermixture with Mongoloid influences of Tibetan and Magar blood. This also shows that what we call the present day Khas-Thakuri people have a good chunk of Magar heritage/origin. And regarding the surnames, I have seen plenty of specifically Shahi, Singh, Malla, who specifically write Shahi-Thakuri, Malla-Thakuri etc. most probably to avoid being taken as Newar Shahi/Singh/Malla. But you don't find Newar Mallas writng Malla-Thakur or even Malla-Newar. Dasarath Chand the great martyr used to write Dasarath Chand Thakur. But writing -Thakuri as their surnames seems to be a pretty recent phenomenon I suppose. Older generation Khas Thakuris I know didn't write such. Among the names you mentioned, the cricketer Gyanendra Malla is a Newar Thakuri not Khas Thakuri.
Last edited: 06-Jul-16 11:06 AM
Last edited: 06-Jul-16 11:11 AM
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