While watching match between Nepal VS India, I saw people holding banner saying "Buddha was born in Nepal, not in India." Was this banner really necessary for this match? Does this kind of attitude shows how immature Nepalese are?

Just found out that Zee TV has been shut down in Nepal because it started broadcasting the serial "Buddha." Shutting down TV channels shows how immature Nepalese can be. Nepal MUST be economically and intellectually powerful in order to fight with India. It seems like India has the remote to control Nepalese people!

@ Ujl

You are right that Nepal should be economically powerful in order to fight with Indians. But why should we fight with them? All we are saying is, they are misleding and misrepresenting the facts about Buddha. Which is wrong? And it hurts the sentiment of many people. I think banning Zee TV was a very smart move.

@sajhafan, I am not saying "fight" in a literal sense. Here fight means "to compete." And dear sajhafan, till when will you ban Zee TV, Start Plus, Zee Cinema, Star Gold, Sony?? We need to seek out real and smart solutions rather than emotion based solution. Duty is higher than emotions. These kind of banning TV channels, shutting down Nepal, putting shoes garland on Hritik's photo will continue forever. And Indians know this fact. Therefore, I am saying that we need to calm down ourselves and start thinking new strategies rather than being emotionally stuck with extremely pathetic ideas like "birthplace of an ordinary guy named Siddhartha Guatama." You can be Buddha if you really want to be! When we react on these kind of pity ideas, then Indians will get more chance to annoy Nepalese and bring about disharmony in the nation. We need to calm down ourselves. If an Indian says, Pashupatinath temple is in India, will Pashupati fly to India? No, fact will remain fact. The International UNESCO clearly mentions Buddha was born in the Kingdom of Kapilavastu, which in present day is Nepal. Wasting time and energy on these things will harm the peace and prosperity of Nepal. The future of a country depends on what the citizens of that nations are doing right now! If we forever involve in riots, banning, shouting, arguing on pathetic ideas, Nepal will never prosper. Always remember, where there is peace, there is prosperity.

@ Ujl

My friend you are totally confused

1. Who told you that making a peaceful display/demonstration  within the limits of law is aggressive? and we need to calm down? are you crazy?
2. Dont you respect others lawfull right for peaceful display?
3. You may think whatever you want to think personally but when you come to media with your personal thought you must be aware of what is allowed by law and need to respect others right.
4. It is very strange to find that whenever some Nepali make peaceful complain/display/demonstration against some illigitimate indian claim there are always some other Nepalese trying to portray themselevs as a great thinker about Nepal India relationship.


here no need to talk big it is very simple and straight forward thing

Budhha was was beginner of the budhhism so naturally ppl have more interest about his birth place as simple as that.

Indians some how started to claim that he was born in India, Nepal claim otherwise with evidence , India disagreed, Nepal asked Unesco for help, Unesco sent a team of scientists, they proved that Budhha indeed was born in Lumbini.


Dont you see the power of protest here ? had Nepal been quiet and acepted Indias claim of budhha being born in India, World could have never known the reality.

After more than a decade of findings, still Some national Actor on National Tv which has international viewer airs wrong  information and we still supposed to keep quiet? not even a peaceful protest? 

Only North Korean Leaders will think peaceful dispaly as aggressive. Why it is difficult for you to accept others right for a peaceful display about misleading information?
And, since when peaceful display about misleading infromation became "emotional thing"? Just because you decided to  think so ?
Budhha's teaching is about seeking the truth, Budhha never said one should keep quiet about a lie , did he ?

Yes you can be Budhha if you want to BUT you can never be a Budhha if you dont respect others right.

Please dont try to create strom in a tea cup

there was a misleading information aired in Indian national TV, PPl in Nepal decided to make a peacfull dmonstration about it, which is their democratic right and they did it, whats wrong about that?

Liberty is not about thinking or saying or doing whatever we want. It is about exercising our freedom in such a way as to make a difference in the world and make a difference more than just ourselves. (From American Scholar, V 67)

 Calm down, guys. Buddha was born in Nepal, not India. Everything's gonna be alright. 

Riddle 

question here is whether the display was necessary or not? 

So I am trying to concentrate on the question

By making such demonstration a group of fellow Nepalese arte practicing their lawful right

1. The display was not derogatory to the society,
2. It was not aggressive
3.Our law allows it
4. The information they are trying to convey is not against anyone

So why are we questioning such act? Just because someone does not like it? In a democratic society we are supposed to respect others lawful right, isn’t it?

Questioning such act just shows how intolerant we are. No wonder we end up fighting on non issues.

Interesting discussion, and I must say both Vhootee and Sidster have excellent points. Maybe it is not a big deal that we are screaming the birthplace at the top of our lungs but then if you look it closely, it actually is. We indeed are making a big deal out of it, aren't we? Or else why would we get all worked up when we always know facts cannot be changed.

Pardon me if I am incorrect, but maybe it just stems out of our inherent hatred towards Indians, maybe because of their so called hegemony, maybe we despise all Indians because of their accent, their competitiveness, their timidity, their stinginess etc. I do not know. Because quite honestly, everytime I sit down with fellow Nepalese friends the discussion is more than just Buddha, most of the discussion hovers around how their fellow coworker doesn't have an extra pair of sneakers and doesn't drink beer with them because it costs money. And I question myself, if I should be proud of Buddha being born in Nepal when we cannot put his wisdom in use.

I understand freedom of speech, and that we do not have any control over it. But I am in serious doubt that people who carried that banner in that soccer match peacefully wanted to inculcate Indians about our history and perhaps this is what riddle and vasudev were trying to explain. And while I say this I am not supporting Indians, they follow suit when they play against Pakistan, which in turns returns favor in similar fashion.

So I guess what I am trying to say is, theoretically what we are doing is wrong, regardless of the fact how Indians treat us if we truly are followers of Buddha.

Underscore, I didn't call for a ban on those banners. I merely expressed my personal opinion. You lot keep harping about freedom of expression, speech and what not and I'm not entitled to do the same? A lot of people cringe at the sights of somebody liking their own pics/statuses on fb, and you could say the same about people cringing at couples and mothers (of their kids') uploading a gazillion pictures. This situation is no different. If they wanna do it, I'm not stopping them. I cringe at the sight as I find it extremely tacky and redundant. I hope that cleared it up a little bit. 

Behoove me ji,
I'm a huge fan of yours. We all know your presence here is a delight and your fictional writing is always a fun to read. No doubt, you are very popular. I'm writing this to you and you alone to see your non-fictional real world analysis.

Let me start
This is NOT about the message but about the messanger. It's not about religion and teachings, it is about a historical fact. By reading your comment above and re-reading it again (unless I don't get your supreme way of writings), you are simply stating how bad of a buddhist we are, if I'm correct. Yes, I agree we have lost many (most, to be honest) of his teachings. But there is a time and place for such discussion. It's just a religion and cannot be exercised completly authentic in this modern day, no religions can be practised in its purity that were written thousands of years ago. It is impossible. Buddhism dictated "non-attachment"  of physical things to live a thruthful and simple life. Can we do it in this modern time? That's just one, I can dig into infinty of how we do not follow Buddha's teachings. But that does not change the fact Buddha was born in Lumbini, Jesus in Jerusalem, Mohammed in Mecca.

While Nepali overseas are changing, and their hatred towards Indians are diminishing, it is impossible for Nepali in Nepal to do that for various reasons that are beyond this discussion. Only when you don't have to live with the person next door, then you start apprecating their presence and void at the same time. It is easy when you are in America, Europe and Australia to say "Why do you hate Indians?" and become offended and angry. And I hope you're mature enough to know that every neighbouring countries in this world hate each other in certain context, not just Nepal and India. It is universal, nothing to do with Buddha's teaching.

Regarding those people who are holding banners, they do not have to be Budda's disciples to make their point. They are not there to prove their religion and how pure of a Buddhist they are, but are there to claim the historical fact that belongs to them. Remember the sign says "Buddha was born in Nepal" and NOT "I'm a pure Buddhist"

If you can point out why we should not give a damn about the historical truth that Buddha was born in Nepal, and not drag our moral values into the discussion, I'll appreciate your response.

Pardon my bad writing. Thanks

Underscore, We need to understand the word "aggressive" in more depth. It was a football match! Indians are there to play a match with Nepal. None of the spectators have known these Indians players personally, so they don't even know what their opinions are about the birthplace of Buddha. Keeping laws aside, the banner clearly indicates the aggresiveness towards Indians in an indirect manner. Can the game be played and watched for the sake of pure enjoyment? Can we Nepalese, keeping aside nationalism for a moment, enjoy the delight of the game? Can we Nepalese, keeping aside nationalism for a moment, respect people? Can we Nepalese, keeping aside nationalism for a moment, appreciate both teams for making this event possible? Are we waiting on Indian government to declare where Buddha was born so that we can live in peace and harmony? Freedom talks are all good, but without the expansion of consciousness, these freedom talks are mere words rooted on emotions and ignorance. What should I expect from a person who cannot even control his anger? Such a person is a slave of his emotions. One must use their discriminative faculty before behaving instead of running here and there with anger. Agressiveness is extremely subtle and starts in the human mind before it takes actual physical appearance. The banner is not just a banner but "The Nepalese mind-stuff." And this mind-stuff if fueled by corrupt Nepalese leaders can turn into a massive disaster.

And vhootee, seems like you support hatred towards people saying it's universal. I call it below animalistc.

Vhoote,

I am not sure how much of a delight I am in sajha because time and again I find a way to embarrass myself. Now if that is what you were referring to, as an entertainment, you are spot on my friend . With that being said, I am an equally big fan of yours as well, your nonpartisan deliberation and analysis in any subject matter is unmatched along with few others in sajha including kiddo, _ _ _ _, sidster, rethink, snurp, riddle and few others. So before I proceed with my take on your reply once again, a shout out to all  you guys who keep the decorum of sajha at best.

So when I wrote my previous reply, I didn't disagree with you. Maybe a little, but that was not exactly related to the context about whether or not we are OKAY to display such banners. And I also agree with you that we are not practicing Buddhists, not to the smallest detail, but hey, maybe being a little wise wouldn't hurt. Also, maybe the crux of the matter lies in history and not religion, no arguments there. But I have issues with combativeness, belligerence and viles we Nepalese often display against Indians and we do it unanimously with an overwhelming percentage and have now found a new means to despise them than ever - by claiming Buddha being born in Nepal. If you try to convince me it was a peaceful way of demonstrating, I beg to differ, perhaps not at that particular instance, but I have come across several individuals who do it despicably. And while I am at it, I am NOT saying I do not find such examples everywhere else, maybe Indians hate us too, maybe they do it with more evil, I cannot say. I guess I am just speaking of righeousness and not retaliation.

I know this doesn't speak of the entire Indian population but I have studied and travelled in India but not once did I come across someone who spoke disgracefully of me even as a third person, but growing up in streets of Kathmandu, I saw it otherwise. I am sure there are episodes about Nepalese being harrassed in India, but speaking of the magnitude and percentage of how we, as Nepalese hate Indians, the numbers in both nations are a little too far apart. And that was my pivotal point of discussion.

So, to wrap this us, do I feel proud Buddha was born in Nepal? Of course. Would I be perturbed if someone claims it was in India? No doubt. But would I get all riled up, along with my 20 million Nepalese and lose sleep over it? I guess not.

Now, if that makes me a traitor, I guess I am one.

Behoove Me

I hate to disagree that this discussion has become more into "Why we hate Indians"  instead of "Buddha was born in Nepal".

Let me put it thorugh a real world example. My car gets stolen and I have a history of hatred towards cops, I'm a low life scum, morally degraded. Now I'm at a police station filling a report. Will it make sense if the police officer examine my moral, history and character instead of looking for the thief who stole my car? His job is to find the car and not investigate my character. As bad as you think we as a nations are right at this moment, our car is stolen and the Indians have claimed it, but we have the proof of the registation. 

I agree that hating anybody is bad and I've always stood by it. I wish there were no hate, greed, jeaolusy in this world. If somebody were to say I have no hate, greed and jealousy is a modern day Buddha. Those factors have been there before Buddha or any other Gods were there, and will be there till the end of mankind. It's human nature.

While I understand that there might be some factors for some Nepali (not all of them) to stand up for the cause simply out of hatred, but to call them "vile" is bit too much. Ignorant, impulsive, easily manipulated? Maybe. But vile, I doubt it. I'm sure Indians hate somebody else (Pakis, Bengali, Sri Lankan, Caribbean, Christians, Muslims, America). So since they do not hate Nepali but somebody else, does that make their values better than us? If you're not aware, most Indians are either unaware of Nepal or they think Nepal is a part of India. Atleast it used to be the case a while ago. A smaller fish is always jealous and shows some degree of hatred towards the bigger fish, and there are fish bigger than India as we know of. Nobody is perfect. Human beings internal sins are universal, unless you're Buddha himself like some of the folks here 

Nepali hatred towards India comes not just out of insecurities and ignorance but also geo-political and land encroachment. India is NOT completly innocent, Indians are (those you met during your travel and studies included). I have nothing but respect for everyday Indians and I try to preach the fresh-off -the boat Nepali the same thing, it is useless and meaninless to hate Indians. I have Indians friends and hang with them quiet a bit. I have defended Indian people from ignorant Americans few times. But do I like India as a country? not too much. It is purely driven by politics and land, atleast for me, not their curry or the Bollywood movies.

I don't think it was wrong for the banner and it was infact a great idea, as long as it was done without profanity and aggression. Likewise, I'm not going to dance and throw a party if India ackowledge the fact, but the truth will be instated and nothing else. No need to make a drama. Will I be happy? yes. Will I go and shove it up to my Indian friends? not at all. Until then, some of us are trying out various ways to let the world know, and I'm fine with that. Power to them.

You want proof: here you go....  anyone wants to challenge the validity of this card please call vhotee

 एक थरि थांगनाहरु एउटा बुद्धको मुर्ति आफ्नो टोलमा राख्न पाउदैन भन्दै आन्दोलन गर्ने , अनि अर्का थरि भरे फेरि बुद्ध इस बोर्न इन नेपाल भनेर कहिँ नभाको नौटंकी गर्दै गीत नै बनाउने , पाए टाएर नै बालेर तोडफोड गर्न पछि नपर्ने  |  पहिला गएर त्यो मुर्ति राख्न पौदैना भन्नेको दडालो खुस्काउ , अनि बुद्ध इस बोर्न इन नेपाल भन्या नि सुहौछ, होइन भने यो मुला खोक्रो स्वांग गरया के नगरया के | 

Looks like it is going to be a busy day today,

Riddle

My answer  was only for your last post 'Calm down guys calm down........, not the posts before. just to let you know that  in this thread I am not discussing  the Buddha’s' birth place I am  discussing ppls constitutional right  for peaceful demonstration. Why?? Because I respected your personal freedom. you may not like it, In this thread  I consider least about where Buddha was born, My main concern is to show respect to others right of expression even though personally you may not like it.

The title of the thread is  "was  it necessary.....? 

here My point of discussion is " we need to show respect for others constitutional right even if  we may not like it. And if we start complaining about others democratic practices then what type of society we are expecting? and we will be discussing all sort of things we dont like even though the thing we don’t like was lawful action.

Behoove, 

Just saying or displaying "Buddha was born in Nepal not in India" does not make one anti Indian or India hater. If a peaceful expression of your belief to your friend is considered against that friend then he is not your friend. If some one is your friend you must be able to disagree with him on the subjects which you think is not factual. If you can not do that then he is not your friend or the relationship is not friendly.

I consider India is a friend of Nepal and vise versa so Nepal/Nepalese must be able to stand and disagree on matters which Nepal/Nepalese think is not true. If you disagree with your friend are you against your friend? i believe not. 
Here I disagreed with you, do you think I am  against you?

Let me give some hot contemporary example 

At present , Us wanted to strike Syria, British parliament voted against British involvement, Canada says no to any involvement , and Jordan said it will not allow its land as a launching pad unless there is a UN resolution.

so,  are British against US? are Canadian against US? Are Jordanian against US? will British and US relation be affected by this British parliament vote against war. 

Will US Canadian relation will have negative impact when Canadian said they don’t want to involve. ?
Will US stop helping Jordan because they won’t let US to use their land to attack against Syria. We all know at present US prestige is at stake, even then its closest ally don’t want to get involved.

Whereas Turkey is pressing US for strong action and willing to help, who do you think US will consider its closest ally ? Turkey or British 
Even though British don’t want to get involved US will not think Uk is against US.

Official Indian position is --Buddha was born in Nepal, they have told many times, but unofficial media have claimed otherwise at times.
If it was a hateful message, If it was a derogatory message, If it was against our law Then  I could have agreed with OP, but it was unofficial complain about unofficial claim.
It was done during the match, it was a good idea because you can deliver the message through out the word, It was very economical. 
the message was not about destroying the India, the message didn’t  spell a bad word about India, the message was not supporting any terrorism in India.

My friend, saying "Buddha was born in Nepal”, neither makes those demonstrators anti Indian nor India haters. 

That just indicates they disagree what Indians are claiming unofficially, and one of the best way to show your disagreement is peaceful demonstration.
Peaceful demonstration should be respected even if you don’t agree with it, otherwise how pppl will express their disagreement?
Only in autocratic society peaceful demonstration are considered unnecessary.

ulf,

Nepal and India are neighbors, just displaying "Buddha was born in Nepal not in India "  will  destroy peace and harmony between two countries? Is friendship between Nepal and India is such delicate thing?
UK can remain Us's closest ally even after voting against US initiation in Syria but Nepalese will destroy peace and harmony just by a simple display? is this a friendship ?

Nepal government official position is also "Buddha was born in Nepal, not in India. Then how come displaying Nepal Government's official position is aggressiveness against India?
Is Nepal governments’ Official position is aggressive towards India?

Have you ever thought may be India does not think it as aggressiveness towards it? and why should India think the display as aggressive towards it?

Is expressing you disagreement in a peaceful manner is considered aggressiveness? May be you are punishing Nepal and Nepalese by your imagination only.

Somewhere I read following story

एउटा गांव मा २ जना चोर बस्दा रहेछन , गाउले को समान चोरेर हैरान पारेका रहेछन. गाउले हरुलाई संका त रहेछ तर प्रमण रैञ्च तिनीहरुले चोरेको भनेर. 

 

एक दिन एकजना चोर ले अर्को चोर लाई भनेछ , हेर साथी कति दिन चोरेर जिबन बिताउने, हामी संग चोरेको पैसा छदै छ, गाउँ नजिक चिनी मिल खुले को छ. चोरेको पैसा ले खेत किनु , खेत मा उखु रोपौ , उखु चिनी मिल लै बेचु , पैसा कमाई हालिन्छ ,

 अर्को ले हुन्छ भनेछ , तर भनेछ इ गाउले को समान चोरेर हामीले इन्हारू लाई दुखः दियका छौ, हामीले रोपेको उखु बारी मा उखु सुके पछि गाउले हरुले आगो  लगाई दिए भने त उखु जली हाल्छ, आनी के गर्नु भने छ 

अर्को चोर ले, अ हों त नि, के गर्ने ह भनेर विचार गरेछ अनी भनेछ, पख इ गाउले हरुलाई, हाम्रो उखु बारी मा आगो लगाउने होइन? इन्हारू को घर घर मा आहो लगाउन पर्छ भनेर त्यो रात सबै गाउले को घर मा आगो लगाई दिएछन 

दुइ जना चोर

 दुइ जना चोर छै राति चौतारी मा बसेर रमिता हेर्दै, लाउ खावो गाउले हरु हाम्रो उखु बारी मा अब लागावो आगो भनेर हासेर  बसेछन 

 

My friend, may be you are assuming too much, may be you are becoming pro Indian more than Indian themselves.
France disagreed with US in second Gulf war, its minister was participating in UN assembly. Bill O’Reilly from Fox news had an interview with him. For every answer which Bill O’Reilly disagreed Bill was answering his own version cutting French minister, Minister was so fed up with this behavior. In Bills last question French minister answered “looks like you know better than me, why don’t you answer yourself”

My friend, if it was aggressive, let India complain about it. And you know they can complain to FIFA, or South Asian football federation about it. There is a provision for complain if they don’t like something. Till date I have not heard them complaining about it. If India /Indian players/ Indian Officials don’t complain why are you so concerned? May be they don’t think it is an important issues, may be they don’t think the matter is worth complaining. May be peaceful display is ok to them. May be they don’t even noticed it. Who knows what?

But you, my friend, find it against India and filled with haltered against India? You talk about hidden aggressiveness of demonstrators as if you are capable of reading their mind but failed to understand your own  hidden aggressiveness against peaceful demonstrators. And you consider them as not peaceful because you imagine them not peaceful

Now I have peacefully disagreed with you, please don’t say “your disagreement was unnecessary” and you can feel my hidden angriness towards you. To tell you the truth both of which is not true.

Underscore, you've made quite a valid statements. I don't wish to prolong this pointless discussing anymore, though. I cringe(d) real hard when I come across banners/logos/campgains related to this. We're way too uptight when it comes to patriotism. Perhaps, we're better off doing something significant and productive for once instead of 'wasting' our time and effort on these things? 

Finally able to get some time to get into this very interesting discussion.

Philosophically speaking nothing is necessary and everything is necessary. So one can even ask "Was this thread necessary?" It may not have been necessary, but it was a choice they made and we have to respect others' choice as long as it does not impinge upon our individual rights.

So the answer is, this was not necessary but it was a matter of choice, but the more important question is about maturity of Nepalese people. It seems like Nepalese people are holding onto anything that they can claim as theirs since they do not have much to be proud of. It is generally OK to be proud of achievements, and I suppose Nepalis are proud of Buddha's achievements in the area of resolution oriented meditation.

But, when you think about the circumstances at the time of his birth, Nepal was not even a country then. It is remotely comparable to being proud of that one dinasaur that saved the primitive man upon a chance encounter. That dinasour lived in the land millions of years ago, that is now called Lumbini and we will hold signs to show our love and devotion to this dinasaur.

As an example let's say I now rent an apartment where Martin Luther King used to live and consistently have fights with other roommates who throw any doubts about it. It makes me so proud to be living in the same place where MLK lived. I have nothing to be proud of so I hold on to that one thing that makes me so proud.

Interestingly since the time of Buddha, most Nepalis have had to go to a foreign country to find salvation. Even us, who are living in the US or abroad, have apparently found our salvation in a foreign land. Some of us may even be considering getting citizenship in the US. Just imagine what would have happened if India stepped in right now and posthumously granted indian citizenship to Buddha? Siddhartha Gautam would become Indian citizen. Just like us, we could become great rocket science, we could prove einstein's theory wrong, but we would all do this in America, an American institution would claim it was discovered in America.

Technically Buddhism was discovered in India, (now india). So instead of claiming Buddha was born in India, they should be claiming "Buddhism was born in India".  That way both Nepalis and Indians would be happy. Maybe not Nepalis because we'd find serious problem with that too

After everything has been said and done, here's a piece of new information that we need to review with a grain of salt

https://www.facebook.com/events/427266500717966/