- http://www.nynewsday.com/business/nyc-bzindia0111,0,7757281.story?coll=nyc-homepage-breaking2



Call centers hear the good, the bad, and the ugly American

BY MIKE McPHATE
SPECIAL TO NEWSDAY

January 11, 2006

NOIDA, India -- Debalina Das, a computer help-line agent in the southern Indian city of Hyderabad, punched the button last winter for a call from America.

"You Indian slut," came the man's voice, the 22-year-old recounted, "in some -- Third World country, roaming about naked without food and clothes, what do you know about computers? Have you ever seen one ... ? This company is just saving money by outsourcing to Third World countries like yours."


advertisement




advertisement

Das, who quit after four months, said she learned to dislike Americans. "Rarely there are people who are good," she said by e-mail, "but then others remind me that all they believe in is cursing and they don't have respect for others."

Such is the sentiment among many workers in India's burgeoning call center industry. While irate calls are a mainstay of customer service work in any country, many here say they regularly face special abuse from Americans, whose tantrums are often spurred by anti-outsourcing opinion and are sometimes racially tinged.

Of the millions of calls patched daily between Indian agents and American customers, roughly 5 percent -- or more than 200,000 -- involve bigotry, say workers and industry analysts. The vitriol feeds a "searing anger" among employees, said Vinod Shetty, a Bombay-based lawyer who has formed a collective for call center workers. "A lot of trauma is caused."

India and the United States have in recent years enjoyed a budding friendship that leaders often ascribe to the countries' entwining societies.

India sends more students to American colleges than any other country. Indians form the wealthiest and one of the fastest growing immigrant groups in the United States. And in the past decade American companies have increasingly sought Indian consumers and employees.

Fueling the telephone tirades is outrage over outsourcing, a practice that is predicted to move 3.4 million U.S. service-sector jobs overseas by 2015, according to the consultancy Forrester Research. Most of the work comes to India, where young, low-cost employees handle a range of tasks for Americans -- they draw cartoons, interpret heart scans, adjudicate insurance claims, reserve flights and chase debtors.

An anti-outsourcing movement in the United States has drawn wide support as layoffs continue to mount at U.S. companies such as IBM, which is cutting 13,000 jobs in the United States and Europe as it adds 14,000 in India, according to the Washington Alliance of Technology Workers. In the first three months of last year, state legislators proposed 112 bills to curb the practice, according to the National Foundation for American Policy.

Some outsourcing opponents have let their ire for job-slashing chief executives veer toward India. Several contributors to the Internet forum Is Your Job Going Offshore?, for example, depict the Hindu-majority country as depraved: a haven for terrorists and wife-burners, a "giant leech," and a nation of "back-stabbing cowards."

Such commentary has helped shape a perception among India's customer care workers that Americans are intolerant. "Everybody thinks like that," said Samik Chowdhury, assistant manager at an IBM office in northern India. "Every time it's racism only."

That opinion is at odds with most urban Indians, who tend to admire America for its strength and entrepreneurial spirit. In a recent 16-country Pew poll, India returned the highest percentage of citizens with a favorable impression of the United States: 71 percent.

The less favorable view, though, is beginning to seep into Indian popular culture. The pilot scripts for a new sitcom called "The Call Center," slated to air this winter on the leading channel NDTV, depict Westerners as arrogant, immoral and comically rude.

The show's villain, the Indian manager of a call center, is an India-bashing blowhard, a disposition he picked up at an Ivy-league business school in the United States.

One of the episodes recreates a real-life exchange that occurred last January between an American and an Indian agent that has become notorious among the call center crowd here. On a Philadelphia-based radio show, host Troi Terrain telephoned an Indian call center pretending to order hair beads for his daughter and quickly turned vicious.

"Listen to me, you dirty rat eater," growled Terrain to muffled laughter in the studio. " ... You're a filthy rat eater. I'm calling about my American 6-year-old white girl. How dare you outsource my call?"

Indian offices have taken measures to thwart such attacks: agents often adopt anglicized names, undergo "accent neutralization" and U.S. cultural training, and sometimes claim to be located in the United States. Workers are taught to suffer attacks politely and try to calm customers. That failing, many offices offer the option to be transferred to agents in the United States.

These humiliations, say observers, are tolerated by a labor force that savors the opportunity to join India's growing middle class. With monthly incomes of about $200, call center employees enjoy upscale lifestyles in a country where one-third of its citizens are poverty-stricken.

"They feel like it is their duty" to swallow insults, said labor researcher Babu Remesh.

In the northern Indian city of Noida, a group of agents for SBC, the U.S. communications company, sat recently on the clipped grass in front of the silver-glassed office building where they field Americans' Internet connection problems. Callers often dismiss them the moment they detect their Indian accents, they say. "A whole lot of the time people are yelling," said Kapil Chawla, 23. "They just want to talk to an American."

Saurabh Jha, a blue-jeaned 22-year-old, said a Texas woman phoned recently and told him that thanks to outsourcing, "you are getting money, food, shelter. You should be starving."

She berated him for 12 minutes before she allowed him to offer advice that fixed her problem: to unplug her computer and plug it back in. "I was speechless," he said. "She didn't even give me a chance."

Mike McPhate is a freelance writer in New Delhi.

i agree with newlynew 100%

its a capitalist society, you created it- learn the rules or deal with it!

I wrote, "pouring out frustration is one thing, racially, and emotionally abusing; another."
While one half is acceptable, another just quite does not sound alright. I believe we concurred on this one.

I think we can safely agree another thing as well, that being, to JUSTIFY that customer service people, make that "customer service people from third world countries" who were fortunate enough to land an "outsourced job," which just happen to land in their country without any of their fault :) , should be able to TAKE racist abuse, for all the reason in this world, the one being "it is part of their job," is at best, ignorance, and at worse, a slap in the face of humanity.

Let me assume that you are not trying to create a case by presenting that being disturbed by telemarketers at non convenient time quite justifies the racist and emotional abuse the customer service people have to go thru. Because if it stands, we basically have no case to argue, except accepting than stealing is a crime punishable by death. Catch my drift?

Thus I will pass it as a digression on your part.

However, I agree that out of millions there are bound be few thousands who choose to behave, in polite terms, unacceptably, be it ethically, morally, and dare I say, beyond the proximity of business etiquette. Thus, I do not blame the entire American populace, but those very few, who actually are a shame to their nation for creating a bad impression around the world.

Also:

remember, if one works as an electrician, yes, one may get electrocuted because of various reasons, but to simply say, "this is part of their job," and “this is nothing new” does not really cut it now, does it?

IndisGuise:)

Laura,

I hope you will take discussion in a positive way. I appreciate your intrest in Nepal and Nepalese.

Lets come down to the point. There is no justiifcation for calling a call center and abusing them.

I will share you my expereince regarding a race related issue. We were coming back from a night club. It was in Pittsburgh. There were bunch of caucasian boys, who walked towards us and started abusing. Some told us to go back to Saudi Arabia. Some were just cursuing.

We were just a bunch of brown people but none from middle east, forget Sauid Arabia. Then we just met bunch of our other frens and also some cops van drove by so situation did not escalate.

However, this did not made me feel comfortable. It was my first visit in Pittsburgh.

Now put yourself in similar position and think about it.

Airight.

peace out

Laura, those peopel are helpdesk representatives. They don't call, they get called instead sweetie... note dat...

have some experienced in one of the call centre of united states......This work sucks not only for international...but people from here also feel this job sucks....you will deal with different types of people continously in a day.........and not all people are same....some people are rude some are nice....if i remember the rude people i just hate it.....I didn't see non of those people who work in the customer service satisfied...some of the customer will yell ...its part of the job...those types of rude people are rude equally with all types of people....they dont' care and are not ready to listen.........
Just my experience...

I think abusing is common in the call centre of united states....they will train how to deal with customer when they start verbal abusing...I think even you are paid good amount of money just by sitting in chair and talking in phone........i have hardly seen people who can stand this job more than one year....or two year...

I do not understand why people are asking the same question again and again ?? It
had already been said... racially, and emotionally abusing the call center people is not
acceptable but this is life and it is not perfect. Out of 100000 calls, there were 5 such
calls...does that mean the whole America is bad ??

I think the girl was stupid to leave the job if that single call was the sole reason for her
to quit. As it had been said here, it is part of your job to deal with nice people and also
with nasty people. You should be prepared for it when you get into it.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

In US, most of the companies have a customer care service whose cost is built into the cost of the product he/she buys.
Read the following story carefully and talk to me about the frustration and the quality of service.
Don't try to make a racial issue here.I am talking about CUSTOMER CARE
**********************************

Dell may or may not be saving a ton of money by outsourcing its tech support, but it is definitely losing loyal customers as a result of the move. And if the comments I recently saw on the Austin LUG mailing list are any indication, the flow of customers away from Dell is only going to increase. Yes. It's that bad.

Take
the recent experience of Thomas Cameron, a computer consultant in Austin, Texas, where Michael Dell is said to have started the firm selling boxes out of the trunk of his car while attending the University of Texas. Cameron wrote on the mailing list:

I was a HUGE Dell fan from probably '91 or '92 until the last few weeks. I currently have an Inspiron 5100. I will *never* buy another Dell again. Let me make this clear: I would sooner eat worms than spend another penny on anything from Dell.
Why the change in attitude? All it took was a couple of phone calls to tech support after he had a problem with the RJ-45 connector on his four-month-old laptop.
Concerning the first call, Cameron said:

I called Dell support, spent 10 minutes getting through the menu and then on hold, and got someone in India who obviously had not done well in English class. It took over 5 minutes for her to just get my name entered correctly. Then -- and I am not kidding here, folks -- when she asked me what OS I was running, SHE ASKED ME TO SPELL WINDOWS!
Cameron hung up. His next call was also routed to India. He was told that since the damage was accidental, he would have to pay $269 in order to ship it back to them for "diagnostics." The technician also told him that if the motherboard had to be replaced, it would cost another $699. That didn't sit right with Cameron, especially since he could get a complete refurbished model for about that same price.
He decided to call again. This time he was connected with a tech-support person in the US. But the story doesn't get any better. He was told to return to the laptop for warranty repair, at zero cost to him. That he did. After four weeks, he got the laptop back. It was accompanied by a letter saying it had been returned unrepaired after having kept on "billing hold." They claimed they had made several unsuccessful attempts to contact him. Plus they wanted to charge him the $269 plus $699 after all.

Cameron said he had called Dell three times while they had the laptop and had been told each time that repairs were "in progress." He verified that they had his correct phone number each time. Nobody from Dell had tried to reach him, regardless of what the letter claimed.

Frustrated and angry, he tried tech support again. They passed him off to customer care. Customer care listened for a while, then passed him back to tech support. Finally he reached a tech in the U.S. who really listened to his tale of woe. Dell sent him a new motherboard overnight (at no charge), and he spent four hours of his own time replacing the old one. Finally, after four and a half weeks, and never mind that he had had to do the actual repair himself, he had a functional laptop again. He says he will never spend another penny at Dell, and neither will his clients if he can help it.

Cameron's experience was seconded by others on the list. Another regular on the list, Dzuy Nguyen added that the outsourcing has sharply degraded the quality of service he gets from Dell, citing his experience of a Dell machine with an obviously bad DVD drive.

He thought all it would take would be to let the tech hear the clunking and clattering noises from the DVD when he inserted a disc. But no, that wasn't enough. He spent an hour on the call, rebooting a number of times, running various tests, and being told once to remove and reinstall the drive himself.

He noted that what seemed like a full two-second delay between speaking at one end and being heard on the other did little to improve communications.

Jim Westbrook is a sysadmin responsible for a large number of Dell machines. He related a tale of two Dell desktop machines of fairly recent vintage which he has finally given up hope of ever getting repaired. They both needed to have power supplies replaced. The last thing he heard from Dell support (this after having been shipped the wrong power supply for each) was that the vendor who supplied them is no longer in business.

Cutting costs is good business -- up to a point. But it remains to be seen if customers will stick with Dell (or anyone else) when the service and quality they expect gets cut. Outsourced or not, short-term savings or not, horrible tech support is not going to prove beneficial to Dell in the long term.

can someone find out whether the Venezuelian dude that I talked last week at HP call center left the job or not :) dude took 3 hours and at last sent me wrong parts. I am sure you guys would have sent him THANK YOU e-card if you were in my place, NO?

companies needa understand that being able to speak english is not enough to be work as a customer service rep. these ppl need to be trained well first before starting taking calls. I must say i am not happy with the customer service on any level these days. BUt does anybody care?

"Dell may or may not be saving a ton of money by outsourcing its tech support, but it is definitely losing loyal customers as a result of the move."

Let Dell decide what's good for Dell. If they truly believe that they're losing money by outsourcing certain tasks to India, then they will have no choice but to bring back those jobs to America. As it stands now, many companies are moving to India because they save bucks. And let's face it, companies exist to make profit. If they don't make profit, they go under and may have to file for bankruptcy.
Last I heard, even Reuters has a plan to hire 1500 more employees in India. While it might not be good for certain Americans, it sure as hell is good for the company. Plus, what it means is that Reuters can work 24/7--that is Indians will handle things when it's night-time in America.
If it's bad for Dell, then they'll make the right decision. So please don't act like what you're saying is all true. Companies know best, let them decide.


"I was a HUGE Dell fan from probably '91 or '92 until the last few weeks. I currently have an Inspiron 5100. I will *never* buy another Dell again"

That's quite funny. So one guy bitches about Dell and you're gonna start painting Americans with a broad brush--that Americans have started becoming anti-Dell. A few examples don't mean squat if you can't prove without a shadow of a doubt that Dell is indeed losing money.

Dell's share peaked in 2000, but after the dot-com bust, it went down, as was the case for most American companies. Here's their income statement:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=DELL&annual

As can be seen, Dell had higher income in 2005 than in 2004, and the trend is that they will continue making profit. Stop lying please.

" called Dell support, spent 10 minutes getting through the menu and then on hold, and got someone in India who obviously had not done well in English class."

There are two types of people who are vehemently against outsourcing in America:
1)People who are afraid that their jobs will go abroad: These people are just stupid. If you want to be competitive in this ever-changing world, you need to make yourself competitive, that's the bottom line. Go get yourself trained or something, or go get another degree. Do something. These suckers act like all hell's about to let loose.

2) White Nationalists: These people believe that America is going on a downward spiral due to America getting too comfy with foreigners. They wanna protect the American economy. They're against immigration, legal or illegal. They feel America is for Whites only. These are the Pat Buchanan types--the David Duke types who wear American flag on their sleeves. These people are jingoists and would love for a race riot to start in America, while they watch in glee as minorities get whooped.

My certificate tells me I'm an American as well, but I'm not afraid of jobs getting outsourced. Use your head for a second. If the type of job I do gets outsourced, it just means that I'll need to retrain myself and keep myself ahead of others and increase my chances of finding a job. Fools, on the other hand, will just blame somebody else for their own failures. Most Americans can't even point America on the map. Also, the crux of the matter is that in mathematics and the sciences, Asian countries have caught up to America. For 60 some years, America has remained on top, and yet when other countries want to advance, some suckers start whining and bitching because of their own low IQ.



"Cutting costs is good business -- up to a point. But it remains to be seen if customers will stick with Dell (or anyone else) when the service and quality they expect gets cut"

Funny as hell. If you checked my link above, you will know that Dell has indeed been making money. If customers are really disappointed and they start revolting against them, then they'll do what's necessary to keep their company competitive. Who are you to tell what's good and what's not for the company. Are you a communist or something?

Companies want to make as much money as they could. they are willing to put toad on the phone if it can say hello....forget about Indians... plus one can perform this task , duty or responsitility according to the skill, training, and resources provided to them. Call center workers are usually highschool graduate and has no expirence about computers. Companies know this, but are unwilling to put more money into it , by hiring skilled people or giving better training. So it's not indians, it's the greedy companies.

i totally agree,

i have had same expeerience with a cell phone company. and that dude was also foreigner (no offence i'm a foreigner too) he said an account was set up and my phone (old phone set) will be ready to use in 24 hours. 2 days after nada .. called again then told can't use my old phone need to sign 2 year contract and get new phone (it was the same company that i had service erlier and disconnected after contract was over) i said don't want a f$^%& contract. forget about the whole thing i don't want any service. after a month got bill in mail. $#^%&%&% called them back and said i don't have any service they said i do. and again asked me why didn't i return the phone after i called to cancel. i was like what f%#^%% phone? i expained the whole thing and requested to cancel my account. it took me three hours of my f#$^%&% time and five attempts before all was settled.

that is what customer service is like these days they are putting cheap untrained people on the job because they want to save money. they suck really bad. i don't it makes any difference if call center is in india or here they need to have trained people.

Birbhadra, if what you assert is true then why are big honchos(CEOs) of certain companies asserting that jobs are going abroad because people working abroad are just as intelligent as Americans, but do the same job at a much lower price? Even Bill Gates is okay with outsourcing. Bill Gates has set up a branch of Microsoft in China. And it has been a boon to his company.
The notion that these Indian call center workers are totally inept at what they are doing is based on a stereotype of foreigners. Basically, what happens is that one guy has a bad experience with a customer service agent who incidentally happens to be in India, and he tells his friend about his experience, and this thing catches on like wild fire. There is no proof that these people are bad at their jobs. If so were the case, wouldn't the case be that companies would think twice before going to India or other countries where wages are low? That's not happening though. Most analysts predict that the outsourcing trend will continue, and for a reason. Companies wanna make as much money as possible. It's such a simple thing to grasp.

I have had a few bad experiences with these agents as well, but they happened to be Whites. Am I okay to think that Whites can't do their duties that well, or would that be a stereotype?
Another stereotype I keep on hearing: codes written by Indians happen to be inefficient/full of errors. Oh, is that so? If they're so bad at what they're doing, and companies lose money rather than make money because of hiring Indians, then why are they *still* sending jobs to India? Or are these people complaining just a loud group of laid off workers with a major chip on their shoulders?
There is no proof that Indian programmers are bad.

thugged out,

read my last line i did not stereotype anyone i just said they don't have trained people these days be it here or anywhere else

My second post wasn't directed at you. It was just an off-hand remark.

My post on another thread related to the same article:

A quick comment of the racial aspect of this : I hope with time Indian and other call center workers will learn to give back to such bigots a bit of their own medicine.

That being said, the nature of customer service is such that it sometimes (or often depending on the type of customer service) involves taking shit from others. The best way, in my opinion, to deal with shit is to give it back. Directly when you can and in a subtle way when you must.

I have confidence that companies in India will be able to apply the lessons learnt from incidents like these to better train their people to handle difficult clients like those mentioned in the article. I also feel increased automation of technical support and the maturing of software engineering will reduce the need for human support - Indian or American - of technology in the future .

My 2 cents.

Yo Birbhadra:

Call centre gives money even for training and if you don't complete the training also they will still give you the money that you attended for the training...yes most of the people who work in call centre over here is high school or college student...I just think customer service job is emotionally hard..So the call centre people hire people every week...and while giving training also they tell us that its common to deal with different types of people.....can you imagine how much money these big companies waste money in customer service???most of the people wont even work for more than year... you need to deal with different types of people where ever you are USA or India..so i don't think that should be make big issue....i have already told verbal abusing is common here also,not only in india......and i don't say that there is nobody's fault...sometimes customer representative cannnot explain and the customer will become pissed off..and i personally have seen that some customer start verbal abusing without even explaining what's the problem........ It is not like you will meet bad people...even you will find many nice people ...more nice and less bad people .....
just my opinion...