प्रधान मन्त्रीद्वारा गरिएको सम्बोधनको अडियो सुन्न चाहनुहुन्छ भने http://torilaure.com/ मा जानुहोस कमेन्ट लेख्न नभुल्नुहोला।

ल च्यामेजि पनि।
कहिले कम्युनिस्टहरुले समाधान् लिएर आएका छन?सम्स्याको पोको त हाम्रो जस्तो गरिब देशमा जस्ले पनि देखाउन सक्छ।
सोझा निमुखा जनतालाइ कहिले ४ बिगा जग्गा पाइन्छ भनेर भड्कायो,कहिले उ त्यो घर अब तिमिहरुको हो भनेर भड्कायो।आफु सुरक्षित भारतमा बसेर नेपालमा जनतालाइ लडायो।
अनि अहिले तराइमा बिध्वँस गर्ने हतियार तिनै बामेको होइन।अझै हम्रो कन्टेनरको हतियार उठ्न सक्छ भनेर थर्काइरहने।

i agree
i mean to say that it was girija et al. due to which these FU***ng maobadis took birth, the spillover effect of these maobadis is the present situation

हाहाहा नेपे दाइले पनि काँ खोट पाइन्छ भुनेर हेर्नुदोरेछ, मैले नि अडकल ग-या थिएँ सुजाताले ती भद्रपुरुषलाई पन्छाएको।
गिरिजा बुडाको भाषण तेइ हो। अहिले "मरेपछि भुत हुने हो कि" भन्ने थेगो छ बुडाको, जैले नि तेइ भन्छन्।

तर यो जनसंख्या बृद्दि सँगै १०/१० वर्षमा हुने जनगणना अनुसार निर्वाचन क्षेत्र निर्धारणमा परिमार्जन गर्ने भन्ने कुरा त ०४६ कै संबिधानमा पनि भाको कुरा हो। बिचारै नगरी हचुवाको भरमा पुरानै कायम गर्नु पर्ने त थिएन, चाँडो चाँडो काम गर्नी भनेर अत्याए केरे अनि उछारै पाएनन्।

हुन त यो विचमा जनगणना भएकै छैन होला माओबादी समस्याले गर्दा कसरी निर्धारण गर्ने हो खै। पहिला मतदाता नामावली सकंलन गरेर अनि निर्दारण गर्ने कि के गर्ने के गर्ने खै।

बामेहरुको पहिलो पाठनै तेइ हो के,कसरि के हावादारि कुरामा जनतालाइ भुलाएर तालि खाएर प्रमुख मुद्धाबाट जनतालाइ टाँढा राख्ने।मूल मुद्धामा प्रवेश गरेर समस्या समाधान भो भने त फेरि झूटको खेति सकि हल्यो नि फेरि?

दादा,

कहाँ खोट पाईन्छ होईन कहाँ रमाईलो कुरा देखिन्छ भनेर पो हेरेको त ।

पछिल्लो जनगणना सन् २००१ मा भएको मानिचु ।


*** *** *** *** *** *** ***


H1b-jee,

जसले नेपालमा खास दल/समुह लाई मात्र "ताल न तुलका" कुरा गर्नेहरु हुन् भन्छ त्यो व्यक्ति स्वयं "ताल न तुल" का कुरा गरिरहेको हुन्छ । किनभने नेपालमा यो "ताल न तुल" का कुरा गर्ने मामलामा वामपन्थी, गैरवामपन्थीहरु सब सराबर छन् । तर अलि वयस्क भएर सोच्ने हो भने, यो राजनीति भनेकै "ताल न तुलका" कुरा गर्ने व्यापारिक प्रतिस्पर्धा न हो, जहाँको बजारमा ग्राहकहरु, let's say, आफुलाई मन पर्ने किसिमको "ताल र तुल" खरिद गर्न आउछन् ।

त्यसैले, यदि at the end of the day, ग्राहकहरुको "सामुहिक पारख" निर्णायक हुने पद्दति छ (democracy) भने कुनै पनि राजनीतिक व्यापारीका "ताल न तुल" का मालसंग डराउनु पर्दैन ।

डराउनु पर्ने त बरु "ताल न तुल" का मालसंग होईन कि मालै नदेखाएर बिक्न खोज्ने व्यापारीसंग हो । मालै नदेखाएर बिक्न खोज्ने व्यापारको हकमा गैरवामपन्थीहरु पो अग्रिम स्थानमा छन् त नेपालमा । गिरिजाबाबुको बारेमा के टिप्पणी गरिरहनु प-यो र ?

वास्तवमा नेपालले लोकतन्त्र र सबै उत्पीडित वर्गहरुको अधिकारचेतको मामलामा (हुन त यस्तो चेत परम्परागत शासकवर्ग र परम्परागत दमनशान्तिलाई खलबल्याउने प्रकृतिको हुन्छ, तर त्यो बहस अलग्गै हो) जतिपनि अगाडि बढेको छ, त्यो यिनै वामपन्थीहरुको "ताल न तुल" का कुराहरुमध्येबाटै भएको हो । र आगामी दिनहरुमा पनि यिनै वामपन्थीहरुकै "ताल न तुल" कुराहरु मध्येकै गतिला कुराहरुको आधारमा मुलुक अगाडि बढ्नेछ । कुन ताल न तुल कुन गतिलो भनेर अन्तिम निर्णय गर्ने ग्राहक हुन् । र निर्णायक घडिमा नेपाली ग्राहकले जहिले पनि वयस्कता देखाएका छन् (४६ सालदेखि अहिलेसम्मको सबै चुनाव र जनआन्दोलनको, खास गरेर चुनावहरुको, परिणाम नियाल्नु, यो कुरा स्पष्ट हुन्छ) ।

वामपन्थीहरुको त्यो भन्दा पनि महत्वपूर्ण योगदान त यदाकदा र ससना भडकाव र त्रुटीहरुको वावजुद समग्रमा नेपालको समग्र परिवर्तनलाई साम्प्रदायिक, अराजक वा यस्तै संकिर्ण र अनियन्त्रित शैलीमा हुन नदिएर राष्ट्रिय राजनीति कै धारमा समाहित राखिराख्नु हो ।

तराईमा अहिले भईरहेको विद्रोहको अनेक पाटाहरु छन् । तर राजनैतिक पाटोको एक प्रमुख अंश भनेको माओवादीले राज्यको संघिय स्वरुपको मामलामा त्यसलाई अस्पष्ट राख्ने संझौता स्वीकार गरिदिएर मधेसी सबलिकरणमा बेवास्ता देखाए भन्ने असन्तुष्टी पनि हो ।

माओवादीले बल्ल त्यसलाई स्वीकार गरी 'संविधान-सभाको चुनावको खातिर त्यतिन्जेलसम्मका लागि सम्झौता गरेका हौं, परित्याग गरेका हैनौ' भनेर मधेसी अविश्वासको खाडल पुर्न खोज्दैछन् (तर माओवादीको अहंकारपूर्ण बोलीहरुले भने उनीहरुलाई मद्दत गरिरहेको छैन) ।

जे होस्, मधेसी लगायतका सिमान्तिकृत समुहहरुको अधिकारको दशवर्ष प्रवर्धन गरेर (उद्देश्य जेसुकै भएपनि) माओवादीहरुले त्यसलाई राष्ट्रिय राजनीतिको धारमा राखिरहेका हुन् । पछिल्लो समयमा उनीहरु केही संझौतावादी देखिएकाले मामला उनीहरुको हातबाट फुस्किन पुगेको हो । (पछिल्ला दिनहरुमा माओवादीभित्र नयाँ वैचारिक संकटहरु उत्पन्न भएको संकेतहरु पनि देखिन्छ, तर यो मधेसको मामला भन्दा भिन्न विषय भयो) । जे होस्, मलाई के लाग्छ भने मधेसी समुदायलाई अझ पनि उनीहरुको सबलिकरण र समावेशिकरण साम्प्रदायिक साधनबाटभन्दा बढी सम्भव र कम कष्टकर त स्थापना हुँदै गरेको उदार लोकतन्त्रको राष्ट्रिय साधनबाट हुनेछ भन्ने कुरामा विश्वास दिलाउन सकिन्छ । कोईराला यस्तो प्रकृतिको कुरा गर्न चुके भन्ने मेरो आसय थियो मेरो पछिल्लो टिप्पणीमा ।

अब, तराईमा अहिले भइरहेको के हो र त्यसलाई साम्य पार्न के गर्नु पर्छ भन्ने मेरो विचार स्पष्ट नगरिकन कोईरालाको सम्बोधनप्रतिको मेरो असन्तुष्टि स्पष्ट हुनेछैन; हुन त तराईलाई साम्य पार्ने कुरामा कोईरालाको सम्बोधनले फ्लप खाए पछि मेरो असन्तुष्टिले आफ्नो डिफेन्स गरिरहन नपर्ने हो ।

मेरो विचारमा तराईको अशान्ति मधेसीहरुको यो वा त्यो बुँदागत राजनैतिक माँगभन्दा बेसी आजसम्म मधेसी समुदायले बेहोर्नुपरेको अपमान र तिरस्कारप्रतिको विद्रोहले अनुकुलता वा संजोगवश मुखरित हुनपाएको घटना हो । त्यो विद्रोहलाई मौलिक रुपमा शब्दबद्द (articulate) गर्न नसकेर मात्र केही नेताहरुले केही तैरिईरहेका बुँदागत राजनैतिक माँगहरुलाई अभिव्यक्तिको साधन बनाएका हुन् । वास्तवमा मधेसी नेताहरुले जे ४-५ बुँदागत माँग गरेका छन्, तीनमध्ये केही केन्द्रले पटक्कै अस्वीकार नगरेको, केवल सामान्य हिचकिचाहट देखाएको अवस्थाका छन् भने केही त स्वयं मधेसी नेता आफैले भुतोभाङ केही नबुझेको अवस्थाको छ । त्यस्ता लगभग स्वीकृतप्राय: माँगले अहिले चलिरहेको उत्तेजित, हिंसात्मक र अराजक प्रदर्शनहरुको पूर्ण व्याख्या गर्न सक्तैन । जहासम्म "प्रतिगमनकारी"हरु को भूमिकाको कुरा छ, त्यो नगन्य वा केवल सम्भावनाको कुरा हो । यो विद्रोह मधेसीहरुको (सम्पूर्ण नभए पनि जति जागेका छन्, त्यतिको) जेन्युईन विद्रोह हो । र यो मधेसी नेताहरुले दावी वा प्रस्तुत गरेको जस्तो राजनैतिक बुँदाहरुको लागि नभएर वास्तविक सडकमा देखिएको दीर्घ दमित मधेसी पीडाको भावनात्मक अभिव्यक्ति हो । त्यसैले यसलाई साम्य पार्न मधेसी पीडाको ईमान्दार हिसाबकिताब गर्ने, उनीहरुप्रति राज्य र शासकजातीले गरेको उत्पीडन र तिरस्कारको लागि क्षमा माग्ने शालिनता देखाउने र आगे त्यस्तो अवस्था रहन नदिन प्रण गर्ने प्रकृतिको सम्बोधन हुनुपर्छ । कोईरालाको सम्बोधन र त्यस show को लागि जिम्मेवार सहायकहरु यसमा पूर्ण अनभिज्ञ देखिए । मैले भन्न खोजेको कुरो यहि हो ।

अब मैले माथि जे दावी गरें, मधेसी नेताहरुले प्रस्तुत गरेका बुँदागत राजनैतिक माँगहरु लगभग स्वीकृतप्राय: अझ केहि त मधेसी नेताहरु स्वयंले भुतोभाङ नबुझेका भनेर, त्यसलाई व्याख्या गर्न चाहन्छु ।

हुन त मधेसी आन्दोलनका नेताहरुले औपचारिक माँगपत्र प्रस्तुत गरेका छैनन्, तर पनि प्रचारवाजीमा आएका प्रमुख राजनैतिक माँगहरु हुन् ,

१) संघिय [गणतन्त्र] प्रति राज्यको प्रतिवद्दता
२) समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली
३) जनसंख्याको आधारमा निर्वाचनक्षेत्रको पुनर्निर्धारण

माँग नं १:
संघिय [गणतन्त्र] प्रति राज्यको प्रतिवद्दता

कोईरालाको सम्बोधनको कुरा छाडिदिउँ, त्यस अघि नै अन्तरिम सम्विधानमा लिखित "राज्यको केन्द्रिकित र एकात्मक ढाँचा अन्त्य गर्ने" (भाग ४, धारा ३३ घ) भन्ने निर्देशक सिद्धान्तले यस माँगलाई स्वीकारोन्मुख अवस्थामा राखेको थियो । जहासम्म गणतन्त्रको प्रश्न छ, त्यो पनि "मुलुकको शासन व्यवस्था सम्बन्धी कुनै पनि अधिकार राजामा नरहने" (भाग २४, धारा १४९) संक्रमणकालिन प्रावधानले मुलुकलाई de facto गणतन्त्रको रुपमा राखेको छ । गणतन्त्रलाई जनआन्दोलनको अनुमोदन र व्यापक राजनैतिक समर्थनले यसलाई नि:सन्देह स्वीकृतप्राय: अवस्थामा राखेको छ । अब आठै दलको सहमति सहितको कोईरालाको सम्बोधनले स्वीकार गरेको "संघिय राज्य" मा गणतन्त्र स्थापितप्राय: रहेको अवस्था जोड्दा माँग नं (१) पुरा भइसकेको छ ।

माँग नं २:
समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली

एकातिर अन्तरिम सम्विधानले स्वीकार गरेको "मिश्रित सदस्यिय समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली" [भाग ८, धारा ६३(३)(क) र (ख)] को विरोध गरेर "[पूर्ण] समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली" को माँग गर्ने, अर्कातिर यो या त्यो क्राईटेरियनको "निर्वाचन क्षेत्रहरु" को पनि माँग गर्ने भनेको मधेसी नेताहरु स्वयंलाई "समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली" बारे भुतोभाङ थाहा नहुनु हो ।

वास्तवमा उनिहरुको निर्वाचन क्षेत्रसम्बन्धी माँग, जुन सबभन्दा चर्को उठेको पनि देखिन्छ, वास्तवमै माँग हो भने उनिहरुले चाहेको प्रणाली अन्तरिम सम्विधानले तोकेको "मिश्रित सदस्यिय समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली" वा छोटकरीमा "मिश्रित प्रणाली" नै हो, अन्यथा होईन ।

नेपालमा लागु हुन सक्ने "[पूर्ण] समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली" भनेको खडा भएका दल/समुह/स्वतन्त्र व्यक्तिलाई देशभर खसेको कुल मत गनी त्यसैको अनुपातमा सिट निर्धारण हुने प्रणाली हो र स्पष्टै छ यसमा बहु 'निर्वाचन क्षेत्र" को सबालै आउँदैन ।

मधेसी नेताहरु र प्रवासी मधेसी बुद्धिजीवीहरुले समेत भुतोभाङ नबुझी आन्दोलनकारी मधेसीहरुलाई "समानुपातिक" र "जनसंख्याको आधारमा निर्वाचनक्षेत्र" को नारा संगसंगै रटाएको देख्दा म चकित छु ।

जे होस्, एकछिनलाई मानिलिउँ, मधेसी नेताहरुले "मिश्रित सदस्यिय समानुपातिक निर्वाचन प्रणाली" को विरोध अज्ञानतावश गरेका हुन् र वास्तवमा यो उनीहरुले चाहेकै र आन्तरिम सम्विधानले स्वीकार गरेको प्रणाली हो । अब यससंग बल्ल मेल खाने "निर्वाचन क्षेत्र" को मुद्धामा प्रवेश गरौं ।

(for some reason, माओवादी लगायत केहि दलहरु पूर्ण समानुपातिक प्रणालीको पक्षमा छन् र निर्वाचन आयोगले पनि यसलाई, शायद विस्तृत प्राविधिक पक्षबारे, अझै छलफल र अनिर्णयको अवस्थामा राखेको छ । यसले मधेसी नेताहरुले साँच्चै पूर्ण समानुपातिक प्रणाली नै चाहेका हुन् भने पनि द्वार खुला रहेको देखाउँछ ।)


माँग नं ३:
जनसंख्याको आधारमा निर्वाचनक्षेत्रको पुनर्निर्धारण

सुखद भनौं कि दु:खद (निर्वाचन क्षेत्र हेर्दा सुखद, तर मधेसी नेताहरुले गणित नगरेको देख्दा दु:खद) अहिले रहिरहेका २०५ निर्वाचन क्षेत्र वास्तवमा जनसंख्यालाई नै प्रमुख आधार बनाएर गरिएको रहेछ ।

- http://kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=99301

निर्वाचनक्षेत्रको निर्धारण जनसंख्यालाई मात्रै आधार बनाएर गर्दा भौगोलिक विकटता रहेको क्षेत्रेको न्यायोचित प्रतिनिधित्व नहुने कुरा त छदैछ, त्यसलाई एकछिन बिर्सिएर मधेसीहरुले माँग गरेकै जनसंख्याको आधारमा मात्र गर्दा पनि तराईमा खासै धेरै निर्वाचन क्षेत्र थपिने रहेनछ ।

संसदमा मधेसी समुदायको न्यूनप्रतिनिधित्व भएको र हुँदै आएको कुरा जगजाहेर छ । तर मधेसभूभागकै भने त्यस्तै किसिमको न्यूनप्रतिनिधित्व भएको छैन । यत्ति हो मधेसको प्रतिनिधित्व पनि पहाडी मूलले गरिदिए । त्यसैले यस अन्यायको समाधान सबै दलहरुमा मधेसीहरुको अधिकाधिक प्रतिनिधित्व गराउने उपायहरुको अवलम्बन हो, केवल निर्वाचन क्षेत्रको वृद्दि होईन ।

निर्वाचन क्षेत्रको मुद्दामा आन्दोलित मधेसी समुदायले देखनु पर्ने सबभन्दा महत्वपूर्ण तथ्य के हो भने अहिले सरकारले स्वीकार गरेको सुत्र (जनसंख्या वृद्धि भएको क्षेत्रमा निर्वाचन क्षेत्र थप्ने) बाट जति निर्वाचन क्षेत्र थपिनेवाला छ, त्यसभन्दा खासै बढी क्षेत्र थपिनेवाला छैन, मधेसी नेताहरुले चाहेको सुत्रबाट ।

सारांशमा, मधेसी नेताहरुले मधेसी आन्दोलनको माँग भनेर जुन राजनैतिक बुँदाहरु अघि सारेका छन्, ती न त राज्य वा वृहद नेपाली समुदाय (पहाडी समेत) ले अस्वीकार गरेको अवस्थामा छ, न त यसलाई पुरा गराउन तराई जलाउने आक्रोशमय आन्दोलन नै आवश्यक पर्ने अवस्थामा छ ।

तर पनि तराई जलिरहेछ । मधेसीहरु आक्रोशित छन् । अब मेरो प्रारम्भको बहसमा पुन: प्रवेश गर्दै यस छलफललाई यहिं टुङ्ग्याउन चाहन्छु । मधेसको आगो र आक्रोश राजनैतिक कम हो भावनात्मक र मनोवैज्ञानिक बढी हो । मधेसीहरुको दीर्घ उत्पीडन र तिरस्कार विरुद्धको तर accurately articulate हुन नसकेको विद्रोह हो यो । यसलाई यसरी नबुझी साम्य पार्न सकिनेछैन । मधेसी नेताहरुलाई तत्काल लाभ हुने किसिमको राजनैतिक लेनदेनको रणनीति अख्तियार गरिएला केन्द्रमा, तर मधेसी समुदायको दुखेको चित्तमा इमान्दार मलम लगाउन अघि बढिएन भने त्यो दुखद मूर्खता साबित हुनेछ ।

अस्तु

References:
Interim Constitution:
- http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2007/jan/jan15/Constitution_2063.doc

Ameet Dhakal on Population Bsed Representation
- http://kantipuronline.com/kolnews.php?&nid=99301


Nepe

होइन, यो कुरा त अन्तै पनि चल्या रैछ त, किन हो कुन्नी? हुँदा हुँदा, नेपे दाई ले भनेको कुरा त "कम्युनिष्ट को गुणहरु" मा थपियेछ त! धन्य हुन्, ME ले भन्या जस्तै साझा क बुद्धिजिबीहरु!

-http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=41280

"ओह हो यहाँ त साझाका ठुला ठुला विद्वानहरु को जमघट पो चल्या रैछ । विद्वानहरु को कुरा के रैछ भनेर एसो हेर्या त यो पनि देखियो:

"भाषण भन्दा सुजाताको कृयाकलाप को टिकाटिप्पणी गर्ने ।"

नेपे दाजी ले ठुलै गल्ती गर्नु भएछ क्यारे!"

Slack-jyu,

सुजाता होईन सुजाताका पिताश्रीले मधेसी आन्दोलनलाई गर्नुभएको राष्ट्रिय सम्बोधनले नखानुपर्ने फ्लप किन खायो र अब कसो गर्नुपर्ला भन्ने बारे मेरो यत्रो लामो भाषण पछि पाल्नु भएको यहाँले अझै सुजातालाई मुल विषय ठान्नुभएको देख्ता उनीप्रति हजुरकै रूची अधिक देखिएन र ?

Nepe

नेपे दाई,

मेरो रुची, सुजातामा होइन कि, साझा का विद्वान हरु मा भने पक्कै गएको हो । ठुलो कुरा चलेको ठाउँ मा superficial कुरा गरेको म क्षमा चाहन्छु ।

Slack-jyu,

मर्का अरुलाई परे पनि अलिकति ख्यालठट्टा बिनाको जिन्दगी के जिन्दगी ? मिस कोईरालामाथिको मेरो ठट्यौली यस्तै harmless थियो । र आशा छ तपाईको पनि यस्तै । हवस् त, सुखद सप्ताहन्त !

Nepe

नेपेजि चाहि साच्चै ताल न तुलकै पार्टिको बाम बुद्दिजिवि पर्नु भएछ।माधव नेपाल भन्ने एउटा नेता हुन्हुन्छ क्यारे त्यो पार्टि को।के गर्ने नेपेजि जस्ता यति राम्रा बिस्लेशक हरु माधव नेपाल जस्ता दूर् द्र्ष्टी नभएका नेताहरुको पछि लागे पछि कहि हुन्छ त? प्रतिगमन सचियो भनेर राजा द्वारा चुनिएका हरिलट्ठक देउबा सरकारमा जाने पार्टि पनि तेहि हो क्यारे।अनि भित्र बैठकम सहि थाप्ने अनि बाहिर आउना साथ बिरोध गर्ने पार्टि पनि तेहि हो क्यारे।

अनि नेपेजि,आज प्रधान्मन्त्रीले भाषन ठोक्ने रे आज फेरि।आजको भाषन मा चाहिँ के भन्नु पर्ला?जस्ले गर्दा दाँज्न सजिलो हुन्थ्यो तपाइको र उनिहरुको राय।

H1B बन्धु,

कहाँबाट आयो माधव नेपालको कुरा ? पुरा कुरा जान्ने धैर्यता नै छैन रहेछ तपाईमा । मेरो राजनैतिक झुकावको बारेमा तपाईको जिज्ञासा थियो भने, कि सिधै सोध्नु (एकदम frank मान्छे हुँ म), कि रिसर्च गर्नु (साझाको आदिवासी हुँ, धेरै धागो फटाएको छु, एक दुई धागो उधिने त पुगिहाल्थ्यो), तपाई त "बुझ न सुझ, बारी बारी कुद" गर्नुहुन्छ यार ।

एनिवे, मेरो राजनैतिक पोजिशनको कुरा हो भने यसो भन्न चाहुँला- म जहाँ छु त्यहा पुग्न प्रचण्डलाई हावाबाट ओर्लिनुपर्ने हुन्छ, माधव नेपाललाई बोली र विचार ठगानमा राख्नुपर्नेहुन्छ र कोईरालाज्यूलाई त बिपत्ता दगुर्नुपर्नेहुन्छ, बुझिस्यो ?


>आज प्रधान्मन्त्रीले भाषन ठोक्ने रे आज फेरि।
>आजको भाषन मा चाहिँ के भन्नु पर्ला?

मैले ऊ त्यहाँ माथी जुन लामो भाषण ठोकें, त्यहाँ के देख्नु भो त ? यो त "रामायण पढ्या बार घण्टा बित्या' छैन, सीता कसकी जोई" भन्या जस्तो भएन ?

कोईरालाहरुले बुझ्नै पर्ने कुरा के हो भने अबको शासन ढाँट, छलकपट र लुकाईबाट चल्नेवाला छैन । अबको जनता धेरै टाठाबाठा छन् । सत्य-तथ्य, पारदर्शिता र ईमान्दारी - यहि हो तरीका, र यो बाहेक अर्को तरीका छदै छैन ।

Nepe

एनिवे, मेरो राजनैतिक पोजिशनको कुरा हो भने यसो भन्न चाहुँला- म जहाँ छु त्यहा पुग्न प्रचण्डलाई हावाबाट ओर्लिनुपर्ने हुन्छ, माधव नेपाललाई बोली र विचार ठगानमा राख्नुपर्नेहुन्छ र कोईरालाज्यूलाई त बिपत्ता दगुर्नुपर्नेहुन्छ, बुझिस्यो

माने गुरु माने तपाइँलाइ।तपाइको जय होस।मान्छे चाहि तपाइ छोइ नसक्नुको तिखो हुनु हुदो र छ क्या। नेपालका वामपन्थि(हाम पन्थि)हरु त तपाइका अगाडि केहि नै रहिन्छन नि। मेरा सबै गल्ति हरुलाइ अज्ञानि भनेर माफ गरिदिनु होला है।

तपाइका भावपूर्ण लेखहरु भविस्यमा पनि पढ्न पाइयोस।तर माधव नेपाल,प्रचन्डे अनि हल्वदार जस्तो चाहिँ नहुनुस है।

H1B-jyu,

मेरो तिखो-खरो शैलीको बारे चाहि, I am guilty as charged.

सक्रिय राजनीतिको सट्टा सक्रियतावादी (activist) राजनीतिमै सिमित रहेकोले तिखो-खरो शैली afford गर्न सकिरहेको हुँला भन्छु ।

जे होस्, धन्यवाद, तपाईको शुभकामना मलाई लागोस् । र "रोटी मिठा चिल्ला, कुरा मीठा खस्रा" भन्ने नेपाली आहानलाई झुठो रहेछ भनेर मैले कहिले महसुस गर्न नपरोस् । तपाईको शुभकामनामाथि थपिदिएँ मैले पनि :-)



*** *** *** *** *** *** *** ***


Now, I would like to share a version of my posting above that I have posted to the Nepal Democracy Forum (nepaldemocracy google group). I know, it's redundant. But there are few points I have explained more. Besides, it might be interesting for Non-Nepali readers.

So here I go again,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Deepak Khadka"
To: "nepal democracy"
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 10:45 PM
Subject: [ND] My view on Madhesi Movement


>
> My view on the articulated and unarticulated demands (aspects) of the
> ongoing Madhesi movement, Koirala and his advisor's failure to grasp
> them and also some confusion among Madhesi leaders and intellectuals
> regarding their own demands.
>
> http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/openThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=41185#376499
>
> Highlights:
>
> 1. The Terai unrest is not limited to the few political demands
> floating around. It's more than that. It is basically common Madhesi
> folks exploding their agony of national neglect and disrespect
> accumulated over time. > among them to articulate them as accurately and powerfully as he would
> do.
>
> 2. The few political demands put by Madhesi leaders are just some kind
> of attempt to articulate them (the movement ) politically, however
> limited. These demands were already floating around so they came very
> handy to sudden Madhesi leaders. However, these demands were/are also
> already in near-accepted states. So fulfilling them won't bring much
> difference. (The failure of Koirala's address to calm the agitation a
> case in point)
>
> 3. Madhesis do not want just this and that political thing, they want
> an accurate account of injustice done to them, a genuine apology and a
> sincere commitment to make things right. This is what Koirala and his
> advisor's failed to grasp. This is what was missing in his address.
> And this is what made his address fail to do what it was supposed to
> do.
>
> 4. Among the political demands floating, the "federalism" is already
> accepted, the "republicanism" was already in a nearly-established
> state and there really was not any dismissal for "proportional
> election". And although, the demand related to the "electoral
> districts" is in conflict with the first demand of "proportional
> election", the existing electoral districts were not really terribly
> discriminatory to Terai land. In any case, the government's
> willingness to increase the number of electoral districts narrows the
> gap.
>
> 5. The interim constitution has adopted "mixed member proportional
> election" and further discussion has been going on between the
> election commission and political parties. So an agitation is hardly
> required for this point at this stage. But the biggest problem with
> the demands of "proportional election" and population based "electoral
> districts" TOGETHER is that it does not make sense. As much as I can
> see, Madhesi leaders and the intellectuals are themselves confused
> about the "proportional" systems and they are opposing the "mixed
> member proportional election" adopted in the interim constitution
> ignorantly.
>
> 6. All in all, the political demands are pretty easy and agreeable and
> they are unnecessarily being presented as confronting ones. It can be
> resolved pretty easily. But the movement is deeper than these ordinary
> political scores. That's what our national leadership should be
> cognizant about.
>
> Finally, Jana-anadolan II was essentially leaderless. But it managed
> to remain disciplined and determined. Madhesi andolan too is
> leaderless, although much less severely than Jana-andolan II. But it
> does not seem to [to have been able to] keep itself disciplined.
>It's time for able people to
> come forward to show the quality leadership. Madhesi andolan is
> potentially a great movement for social justice. But it will have to
> connect to all victims of injustice. A narrow movement limited to the
> issues of Madhesi is still good. But disciplined and peaceful it must
> be. That's the challenge of the moment to all Madhesis in movement and
> all justice-loving non-Madheis in solidarity.
>
>
> Deepak Khadka
________________________

View/Share this post only

oops..
Read the highlight #1 as follows,

> 1. The Terai unrest is not limited to the few political demands
> floating around. It's more than that. It is basically common Madhesi
> folks exploding their agony of national neglect and disrespect
> accumulated over time. The only problem is that there is no Gandhi
> among them to articulate them as accurately and powerfully as he would
> do.

__

Just sharing the discussion continued in Nepal Democracy Forum.

In this one, I am replying to a Madhesi friend's sincere questions regarding real feeling of Pahadi supporters to Madhesi movement.




From: Deepak Khadka
To: nepaldemocracy@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: [ND] Re: Discrimination against Madheshi and Change of Heart

XX-jee,

Having met you during ANA 2006 and impressed by your sweet and sincere personality and having sensed a genuine sincerity in the profound and tough questions you have asked here, I am daring to answer each one of them with utmost sincerity and frankness.

My answers might not be what you were expecting to hear and I might even appear alluding the specificity of the questions. However, I am hopeful that you will accept that I at least brought you to a fundamental place where you should get all the answers.

My answer is going to be frustratingly simple and to the point. Of course I could have chosen the other way and tried to put together all knowledge from social science, social psychology, history, political science and just about any relevant shastra (to be honest, these are not my fields, however, I can easily act like I know a thing or two ;-) ) to find the answers you are looking for. However, I am choosing otherwise and you are going to easily see why I am doing so.

So with this rather unnecessary bhoomika, I am getting to your questions. Although the actual list of the questions are not really necessary (to the answers I am going to give), let's refresh ourselves with the major questions.

● Is the support/sympathy of the Pahadis to the Madhesi movement genuine ?
● How come the same Pahadis were oblivion/ignoring the Madhesi issues until now ?
● Why the Pahadis practiced discrimination to the Madhesis for so long ?
● Do the Pahadis feel guilt about what they did to Madhesis ?
And finally,
● Why Pahadis are not as willing as Madhesis to pledge to the fund for the victims of the Madhesi movement ?

I will come to the final question at the end, so for now let's focus on the rest of the questions.

Before I present my answers, I want to say an important thing about our understanding. From the list of the questions above, I need to assume that you (could be generic) understand the Madhesis (or their plight ) fully, but do not understand the Pahadis (or what or how they think). The assumption that you understand the Madhesis fully is important because I am relying on that to make you understand my answers.

So, are we ready ?

Since the case is about a relation between, to put rather crudely, a predator (the Pahadis) and the victim (the Madhesis), I am going to bring up a similar scenario from an area (inside the Madhesi group) you are familiar with. Yes, I am talking about the internal discrimination in the Madhesi group itself. (one can also use the internal discrimination among the Pahadi group as an reference for this purpose, there is no difference essentially).

So, let's talk about, let's say, Caste/High cast Madhesis (as a predator) and the Dalit Madhesis (as the victim).

It's true that Dalit Madhesis (or Dalit Pahadis, as I argued earlier) are yet to rise up against their predators. However, that is going to make my answers even more graspable.

So, without further ado, let's ask your questions once again, this time replacing the Pahadis and the Madhesis respectively with the Caste/High Caste Madhesis and Dalit Madhesis.

Since, as I said, the Dalit Madhesis have yet to rise up and the Caste Madhesis so have yet to show their solidarity/sympathy or a lip service, whatever would be true, to that kind of movement, we can ask even more agonizing questions. However, the purpose of this discussion is not to measure the agony, but to understand the psychology and the behavior of the predator group. So, let's ask the relevant questions.

● What are the caste/high caste Madhesis ARE DOING to the Dalit Madhesis even until this very minute ?
● If there is a Dalit revolt, would caste/high caste Madhesis support it and would thatsupport be genuine ?
● Do/will caste/high caste Madhesis feel guilt about their discrimination against the Dalit Madhesis ?

Dear XX-jee, the answers to these questions are the answers to the questions you have asked.

I just want to emphasize that, with these questions, I am not defending the Pahadis, simply because that will be as futile as a high caste Madhesis defending his caste group against the Dalits. I just wanted to present a perspective that helps us to find the truth about the things we are so sincerely curious.

I will add one thing for sure. The agony you expressed in your message is understandable and good too (to wake up the still oblivion Pahadis for one). However, I also feel some kind (may be just a tone) of frustration. That too is fine. However, what is not fine is to fail to appreciate the fact that some (actually a vast majority, just count their numbers in Jana-andolan II) good Pahadis have been/are fighting with the bad Pahadis to hopefully establish a new and just Nepal for all people.

This is not to offend anybody, but the fact is that these good Pahadis were far ahead (upto 12 years) of some of Madhesi leaders (note, leaders emphasized), in terms of the activism and conviction for a new Nepal with equal rights and dignity to the Madhesis and all marginalized groups. Recent Jana-andolan II (gloriously participated by all, the Pahadis, the Madhesis, the Himalis) was just a logical conclusion of that kind activism (of course Madhesi and other marginalized groups' activism whenever and wherever appeared included).

It is Jana-andolan II that has liberated Nepal from it's old order and brought freedom to everybody to fight for more freedom and justice. Without this freedom (meaning had Jana-andolan remained yet to occur), the kind of Madhesis andolan we are having (both the style and the purpose) would have never been possible (even the "largest democracy" of the world, India, is yet to reach to our level of enlightenment and freedom to ask and fight for statehood of our choice and the right of self-determination. Let's be proud of that.)

So, the point relevant here is that the Pahadis (of course along with non-Pahadis) fought, fully knowing, fully desiring, fully committing themselves to, for a state that would bring justice to non-Pahadis by reducing their own old privilege and power. Let's be proud of these Pahadis. And also, let's celebrate that these progressive Pahadis are slowly but still in a way that does not let us lose our hope are moving ahead to replace the remnants of the old order. This is exactly what Madhesi movement needs to connect to. Madhesis neither need nor should fight in isolation. And they definitely should not mistrust the progressive Pahadis. They are their friends. They are their comrades-in-arms.

There is one more thing in which local Madhesi movements of future will need the support of the progressive Pahadis from the national stream. By future movement, I mean a movement to fight the internal discrimination within the Madhesi group. Frankly speaking, the current Madhesi leadership (both the GOP, Sadbhavana,and the fresh MRF and whoever are emerging) are yet even to raise, let alone work out remedies of, this terrible injustice.

That brings me to a sub-topic I would like to have a little discussion. This is about the limitations or weaknesses if you like of the current Madhesi movement. I will be also presenting my explanation to possible reluctance of the Pahadis to pledge to the fund we talked about earlier. That will also complete my promise of the beginning to answer all the questions.

I think, I rather take a break here. We already have enough material to keep the discussion going. And my fingers are also a bit tired.

In the next concluding installment, I will talk about my frank views on the poor leadership, narrow scope and a looming danger of the degradation of the movement. One can wonder why I am so particular about the weaknesses of the movement. Well, I think the ongoing movement is POTENTIALLY a great movement for social justice for all marginalized groups in Nepal. That is why. But also equally important is that, this could be (actually already is being) a complementary movement to complete the revolution of Jana-andolan II, which is, for technical and other reasons (the guards of the old order happened to be the one holding the transitional power, ironically or realismically), is happening in a slow motion.

There are so many bright dimensions to this movement. That for next installment.

Best,
D..
___________

Nepe

Nepe ji,

just a query.. i am curious, don't take it otherwise ni pheri.

aren't you violating the norms of your 'democratic' forum by publishing its 'closed' discussions in this open platform ? :P

LooTe

And, this one is a follow up discussion. Here, I am talking about problems with some political demands (electoral seats and proportional election) of Madhesi leadership and a weakness of Nepal government (panicking).



From: "Deepak Khadka"
To: "nepal democracy"
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 ...
Subject: [ND] Re: Discrimination against Madheshi and Change of Heart (Cont.)


Dear XX-jee,

I broadly agree with everything you said.

My earlier post had a very limited purpose- of trying to convince you
that non-Madhesi people's support for Madhesi movement was as genuine
as any justice loving people's support could be and that the
progressive section of Pahadi people have since long been fighting
with the status-quoist Pahadis for securing justice and equality to
Madhesi and all other marginalized groups in the country. In other
words, I was trying to show how things are not pure black and white
and how our future is really bright. And I feel great to see that you
share my optimism and hope. And the same goes with YYjee's
short but right on the mark remark.

As for the comparison of political discrimination against Madhesi and
social discrimination against Dalits, I think the latter is more
severe, more lengthy, more deep rooted, more rigid, more inhuman, more
degrading and more impossible too. In fact, this one is a
discrimination that is social, cultural, religious, political,
intellectual, Godly (lack of intervention for so long ! ) and
everything else that there is. I have meditated on this quite a bit
and have concluded that only very radical way and approaches unthought
of ever before shall be able to emancipate Dalits. Dalits will have to
go very far far, say, beyond how far Madhesi movement went recently,
to bring that kind of revolution. Of course I am not talking about
violence. I am talking about non-violent radicalism. Radicalism that
is strong enough to force radical reforms to ENFORCE respect to
Dalits. That kind. Anyway, this is little off the topic.

Back to Madhesi movement, I am glad to see it's achievements and
particularly the sense of respect and power a Madhesi might be feeling
now irrespective of the political demands fulfilled. I really
celebrate the latter, because that is the most important part. As I
said, I dream of a day when a Dalit would feel the same. We do have a
long way to go.

That said, there are things I am not happy with.

First of all, I felt that the government, instead of getting
enlightened by Madhesi's movement and start working vigorously to work
out a "samyantra" (system) to deliver justice to ALL exploited/
marginalized groups, appeared making decisions for Madhesi group only
out of PANIC. Of course there were things to panic about and to
address them without losing a single possible minute (violence, loss
of lives and properties, growing mistrust). But there were also things
(important not only to Madhesi but also other groups) that were
needing a broad based (participated by non-Madhesi groups as well)
discussion.

Before talking about specific points, I would like to repeat my
earlier philosophization that the political leadership of Madhesi
movement or, to be more specific, the list of political demands
presented by them were insufficient and inexact to fully articulate
what a common Madhesi folk was trying to say through his agitation/
movement/revolt whatever we call it. Now the question, to myself of
course, is what kind of additional political demands and what kind of
revision to the existing demands would make them more comprehensively
and more accurately articulating the Madhesi movement ?

Well, I do not think I am articulate enough to articulate them the way
I think they need to be articulated (I hope I am saying it right).
However, I am going to talk about some problems with some of existing
demands, even when they are fulfilled or near-fulfilled, which I hope
will point to the inadequacies I am talking about.

Basically, these demands failed to convey the message that Madhesi
movement/revolt is about Madhesis's rightful share and not about
compensation to the past injustice to them at the cost of other
groups' share. (the demands of electoral seats based ENTIRELY on the
population statistic would be a case for this one). And then it failed
even to remind itself, let alone convince others, that future Madhesi
autonomy it envisions shall not replicate the old non-inclusive state
structure of Nepal at local level in Madhesh. (the demand of
proportional election based on entire Madhes as a single group would
be a case for this one).

Let me explain them in more detail.

1. Distribution of electoral seats based solely on the population and
not at all on geographical condition will do injustice to the people
living in "bikat" geography.

How ? Here is how. Let's start with the logic of population based
electoral distribution. What is the logic, I mean the scientific
reasoning ? The reasoning is the equal accessibility of the voters to
the elected candidate, just like equal teacher/students ratio across
all schools. There is no other scientific reasoning. Now, it is not
difficult to see how, among two constituencies with equal population,
the voters of a constituency with a stretched area and difficult
terrain or transportation will have lesser accessibility to their
elected representative than the voters of the constituency with
smaller area and easier terrain and transportation.

Now, back to the movement and the political demand, I don't think an
ordinary Madhesi was fighting for a formula that would deprive, let's
say, his fellowman living in Himal some Pahad and even some Madhes
area with poorer transportation condition, of equal right of
accessibility to the political tools that represent them.

This much for the demand of population based electoral seats.

2. I want "Proportional" but I don't know what it is.

In my earlier post and elsewhere, I have claimed and explained how
Madhesi leadership (and I will add here that not only political
leadership, but also academic leadership, the latter includes all
Madhesi as well as non-Madhesi intellectuals supporting all political
demands in full, that means everybody in this forum included !) itself
is in utter confusion about what exactly it is demanding and what
exactly it is opposing in this particular case.

I did not get any response from anybody on that. So, this time I would
like to be a little bit more provocative. I would like to invite
certain friends specifically to this discussion.

But first, let me restate my argument. My argument is that I think
Madhesi leadership's opposition to the provision of "mixed member
proportional election" mechanism adopted in the interim constitution
[Bhag 8, Dhara 63(3) (ka) and (kha)] is ignorant because what else
might they be demanding when they are demanding (a) certain number/
formula for electoral seats, and, (b) proportional election, together.
I mean what is the purpose of 205+ electoral constituencies if it is
not for traditional "single member district plurality voting" as
described in Bhag 8, Dhara 63(3) (ka) of the interim constitution ?

Could you please somebody (may I request ZZ-jee, WW-jee or
anybody. I re-read ZZ-jee's piece "Doing
Justice Right" and found that these two conflicting demands of
"proportional representation" and "population based constituencies"
are stated just like that, so may I request ZZ-jee to explain how
they are not conflicting ?)

Now, one more contradiction. Some Madhesi leaders (Jaya Prakash Gupta,
for example) are opposing Dalits being splitted from Madhesi group for
the purpose of separate "inclusion". If I am reading well, all Madhesi
leaderships are asking to treat Madhes as a single group for the
purpose of inclusion/proportion. This is exactly what I was calling a
mistake of replicating the old state of Nepal in Madhes. If this
demand is fullfilled, it will end up doing nothing but just creating a
small and new Madhesi elite leaving the rest of the population
"excluded" as before (interestingly, one of the unfortunate
possibilities our member Gagan Thapa was forseeing in his recent
article in Kantipur !)

So, I think, now that Madhesi people saw their power as a "part", it's
time for it's leadership to refine it's political demands/positions to
connect sensibly to the "whole".

With this, I will conclude this installment of my ganthan.

References:
Interim Constitution:
- http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2007/jan/jan15/Constitution_2063.doc

Doing Justice Right by Bindu Chaudhary
- http://www.nepalnews.com/archive/2007/others/guestcolumn/feb/guest_columns_03.php


DK
______

Nepe

Loote-jyu,

We, at Nepali Democracy Forum, have an understanding that the material, with poster's consent, can be published elsewhere.

In fact, we are discussing for a way to make public the discussion of public interest in there.

We are contemplating between a separate public discussion forum and publishing a periodic digest of the discussions.

I have preferred a public forum.

Don't know when we will make a decision. When it comes to administrative decisions, we are pretty slow.

Anyway, thanks for your query and this opportunity to inform interested friends.

Nepe

Nepe said ..

'Well, I think the ongoing movement is POTENTIALLY a great movement for social justice for all marginalized groups in Nepal'

--हो हो एकदम हो।
--------------------

सांकेतिक हतियार (माथिको तसबीर) वा साँच्चिकै हतियार प्रदर्शन (मधेसी आन्दोलनका केही प्रदर्शनहरु) नि:सन्देह अरुचीजनक (tasteless) दृश्यहरु र आयोजकका अपनिर्णयहरु (poor judgment) हुन् । परन्तु यो हिंसाप्रति तत्परता भन्दा बढी माओवादी हतियारले पाएको वैधानिकताको अन्त्य नभइसकेको अवस्थाको सस्तो उपयोग हो ।

माओवादीको पूर्ण नि:शस्त्रिकरण भई मुलुक एकल राष्ट्रिय सुरक्षाबलको स्थितिमा पुगेको अर्थात् गैरसरकारी हतियार अवैध हुन पुगेको अवस्था भइदिएको भए यी माथिका दृश्यहरुलाई सर्वसाधारण जनताले नै अस्वीकार र प्रतिकार गर्ने थिए । ( के गर्नु, कोईरालाले राजतन्त्र जोगाउने कोशिसलाई प्राथमिकता दिएर माओवादीलाई अर्धसशस्त्र अवस्थामा स्वीकार गर्नु पर्ने अवस्थामा पुर्‍याईदिए । 'गणतन्त्र भने गणतन्त्र, बिसा हतियार' भन्नुपर्ने थिएन ?)

जे भए पनि छिट्टै (कम्तिमा सम्विधानसभाको पहिलो बैठकले राजतन्त्रलाई औपचारिक विसर्जन गरेसंगै, वा के भन्न सकिन्छ र, त्यस अघि नै गणतन्त्र घोषणा भए संगै) माओवादीको हतियारको औचित्य खतम हुन्छ र तीनलाई decommission गरिनेछ र बल्ल हतियारको 'ह' पनि उच्चारण गर्नु नितान्त अनुचित हुने अवस्थामा पुगिनेछ ।

त्यतिन्जेल मैले माथि भने झै हतियारको सस्तो धम्की दिएर न्याय खोज्नेहरुको खासै खतरनाक नभएको तर मूर्खता चाहि मूर्खता नै हो त्यो झेल्नै पर्ने देखिन्छ ।

तर हाम्रा मूर्ख नेताहरुले पनि अलिकति बुद्धि झिके भने हाम्रो यो परिवर्तन र न्यायको यात्रा अलि सजिलो हुने थियो । त्यस्तो बुद्धि के हुन सक्छ भन्ने बारे आजै एकजना साथीसंग भएको मेरो सानो कुराकानीको एक अंश यहा बाँड्न चाहन्छु,

From: Deepak Khadka
To: ...
Date: Feb 12, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject Re: Your posting on NDF

[....]
.... .... there seems a flash of blindness at the moment in the
country. However, I am pretty sure everybody will soon gather their
senses back and be able to look at the problems and solutions with
their normal vision.

And I am sure, whatever one does meanwhile, collective wisdom will
prevail at the end of the day. I really believe Nepal and the
collective wisdom of Nepalis are too strong to let Nepal get
disorientated and disintegrate.

So the key is how we make the collective wisdom of people rather than
collective stupidity of politicians a decision maker. I think a system
of openness, transparency and candidness (put all things on the table,
don't hide anything) and public debate rather than behind the bar
deals among political parties on matters of national importance is the
way.

Our political leadership is still operating with the old formula of
"manipulative" ruling. That's not going to work. Because nobody is
dumb anymore. Revolution in communication world has changed Nepal for
good. Now, everybody knows everything. So the idea that you can keep
certain fault lines intact by hiding certain facts does not apply/work
anymore.

So, the formula for ruling in Nepal, as much as I can see, is to place
all the facts on the table and let the collective wisdom of public be
a decision maker. When you put all the facts on the table, everybody
can see who is talking reasonable and who is talking nonsense. So
nobody will be able to place undue pressure to unreasonable things.

[...]

_______