Does Nepal need ethnic state?
- A big no.

How about the state system (federalism based on geography, etc.)?
- A big no.

Can ethnic or geographical state solve the problems they're seeking?
- A big no.

Federalism, be it based on geography or ethnicity will add more number of jobs only to already corrupted fat politicans and won't do much for the upliftment of the poor nepalese. This is the illuson that maoists have succeeded in selling, and everyone including janjatis and brahmin chhetris have fallen into. Federalism will add more conflicts about sharing of power and resources, and demarcation of boundaries. Nepal is not in a state or ready to solve any of these problems yet. Nepal will get poorer. Even after making a federal state, the state heads will probably choose to spend most of their time in Kathmandu, rather than their poorer states.

Nepal need decentralisation, and federalism might be a solution theoretically, but in the present context of chaos, it is merely illusion and will add more problems. Rather they should allocate more funds to these poorer districts or development zones. People in places such as far-western region are really behind the rest of Nepal and the world, and the central government have always neglected them. Politicans who get elected from these regions such as Deuba, Pashupati Shamsher Rana should be ashamed of themselves. They never cared the place where they got elected from or where they were born. I've heard somewhere, Deuba's village doesn't even have a bridge to cross the river.

How come madhesis talk about one madhesh state and protest only when they're in opposition. They never protest when they're in the government. The same corrupted people leading these ethnic or whatever geographical states won't lead the development of these states.

Problem of Aadibasi
Janjatis (excluding brahmin, chhetris) probably feel that they're being ignored. Most of people are unemployed and all the frustrations probably come out when they come to street to protest. A mob mentality is very dangerous. But more so is the most corrupted and war-criminal leading and calling for these protests - Prachanda.

The fire has already been started. It's not going to be easy to extinguish it. Reservation system is not good in the long run and is not fair for the hard-working people. But in the present scenario, reservation is probably one of the possibility to make the things inclusive; but it shouldn't be FOREVER. My opinion - probably 5-10 years. Some people like Aangkaji sherpa has probably forgotten what they have started fighting for, and are following Prachanda like dogs. Ofcourse, there are very poor people inside every ethnicity; so the reservation could also be given to the poorest region or something like the ones without parents/without any property/income below certain numbers. But again there's going to be a corruption. Under the reservation system, probably the daughter and sons of janjatis leaders are going to get more opportunities than the rest.

Journalists
Nepali journalists are one of the worst. They are very biased. Aangkaji was right in the context that the journalists are biased and newspaper completely ignored the news of janajatis. I was watching yesterday's news programs on TV; they were highlighting dozens of people protesting at a couple of intersections. On youtube and facebook, I saw thousands of people protesting, and the news didn't even mention it; forget about showing it. Their agendas may not be right; but they're journalists; they are supposed to show us all the aspects, and let us decide who is right and who is wrong.

Shouldn't Nepal worry more about the unemployment, water, electricity, and fuel rather than the constitution or federalism? Will constitution or federalism solve any of these problems?
It's not only nepalese politicans; India is always playing a role in Nepal's misfortune. They've still not learned a lesson by sponsoring nepalese maoists that they've now started to make a plan to divide Nepal. If Nepal get divided, won't it be a more threat to them as well? Are Indian bureaucrats like Mehta so stupid or I must be the one then.

A convicted criminal (my biased opinion: Sitaula is definitely guilty for Sudan scam) corrupt Sitaula requests for CA extension, and his own party leader protests against it and tells he was unaware of it. Nagariknews editor wrote editorial on its support few days earlier. Sitaula probably also on a payroll of indian government and sitaula, bhattarai, and prachanda are the ones dreaming to be lendup dorje. By the way, did anybody read the stories on how india kicked lendup dorje's ass later on?

Let's call a spade a spade. Well, it's a spade but it has been systematically oppressing club, diamond and heart for years.

When I was a kid, most of my friends were from ‘lower castes.’ The older people around me always tried to remind me of my social status and warned me to stay away from them. But they were my friends. I would say ‘Yes’ and secretly go to my friends’ place. The closest one was a guy named Prem Bahadur Tamang. Before I even knew what a caste actually was, I started eating in his home, especially ‘Thulo khasi.’ For a long time Prem couldn’t come inside my home. Not that he was not allowed to but he had a growing consciousness of where he ‘belonged’- this had been hardwired to him by the society.  

One time an elderly relative of mine saw me playing with my friends and he later told about it to my family. Being a teacher and a genuinely progressive person that he is, my dad laughed at the guy but didn’t say anything.  But I couldn’t contain myself.  I told him that my own teacher tells us ‘ मान्छेको कुनै जात  छैन. उसको जात मान्छे नै हो.’ Prem and I were very close friends until I left my home.

This morning when I talked to my dad and asked about the ongoing Janajati rally he was really worried about the direction the protests were going. प्रेम चिन्छ्स नि होइन ? त्यही तेरो साथी क्या . नारा लगाउदै हिंड्दै थियो अहिले फोनमा भन्न नि नसुहाउने. Do you think Prem would say such thing in front of me or when he was alone? I highly doubt it. But that’s a crowdsourcing of democracy for you. People in a rally tend to align to groupthink and exhibit mob mentality. A crowd has a completely different behavior than the sum total of individual behaviors. Although I would like to think these people are not genuinely against a particular race, think about what message does it conveys to our children – that the friends in his class with whom he shares his lunch are different and are to be hated.

I am not saying that racism based upon ethnicity has vanished. It’s not an overnight process. It’s a gradual process and requires generational changes. It took us a long time to come to this point but today we want to undo these changes and go back to 19^th century. Wait a minute… the country was already in 19^th century; maybe we are pushing it back to Stone Age.

There is no denying that ‘Khas’ people have benefitted due to Nepali language. But the claim that the state perpetuates the systematic oppression of other caste holds a very little ground. Also, I have been hearing about the opportunities only present to a particular ethnic group is equally ridiculous. I imagine Bill Clinton saying ‘It’s the socioeconomic condition, stupid.’  Does Karnali ring bell to anyone?

If you get a chance, go and analyze the ethnic mix of students in a government school. You’ll see them proportionately representing all ethnic groups. Most of us are struggling together. I blame it for centralization of resources.  I agree that the government failed to empower our demographics. Interestingly, the government has failed all ethnic groups and not only Janajatis.

A large number of people think that this marginalization and social exclusion can be overcome by ethnic federalism. I support federalism but not ethnic federalism. Nepal is made up of dispersed ethnic groups. So, pray tell me, how this ethnic federalism is going to ensure upliftment of everyone?  How come Dalits who have been most disadvantaged do not have their right assured ? Equally, how come it’s not apparent that this proposed structure sidelines Khas who make up the largest minority in Nepal? Fundamentally, who is going to guarantee the safety of all ethnicities in all federal states? Additionally, the variable of religion hasn’t yet come into picture. Let me ask you: Do you think America would have been here if it were divided into German, English, Scottish, Irish, Italian, African American, Hispanic, Asian American states etc?

हामी गरिब छौ. तेसैले हामी दरिद्र छौ. नेपाल कुनै जाति बिशेष को होइन. नेपाल सम्पूर्ण नेपालीको हो. जब सम्म हामी मेरो, मेरो जातिको बाट हामी सबै नेपाली हितको निम्ति सोचदैनौ तब सम्म हामी यस गरिबीको भुमरीबाट बाहिर निक्लिदैनौ. यहाँ धमिलो पानीमा माछा मार्ने राष्ट्रिय तथा अन्तरास्ट्रिय ब्वाँसोहरुको कमि छैन. यस घडीमा बिभाजन होइन, हामीले समाजन खोज्नु पर्छ र देशलाई पतन हुन बाट जोगाउनु पर्छ.

Certainly I do believe that we do need to empower under privileged people. It should not be in lieu of; it should be in addition of.

Disclaimer: The plural of anecdote is not data.

Alternate, thanks for your unbiased opinion. I respect your opinion.
I am afraid that federalism is going to create even more politicans and to bring more conflicts for sharing of resources and demarcation of state lines. Currently Nepal need the least numbers of politicans; we simply can't afford more of these crooks.

I think the reason for all the protests are all the frustations. Mostly the government offices and power houses are occupied by brahmin, chhetris. Yes, they studied hard, and were determined and guided from the beginning to get employed in government institutions. Let's admit that our system is corrupted and we don't respect others in general. When these people go to government offices, they are most likely to be mistreated by these crook officials in order to get the bribes (Then there are occasions when they prey on certain groups - the recent airport incident of Sherpa women). So instead of not knowing the real cause i.e. the system, we would easily blame the ethnicity of person on the "kursi". If that person is from janjatis, will s/he be doing the same? why not? But the reality is that currently it's mostly brahmins/cheetris. It seems that janjatis want the share of all these rather than having a fair/unbiased system. Non-janjatis also are afraid to lose their stakes from these dirt money, and hence the present chaos.Then there're the crooks like Prachanda/Mohan Baidhya/Baburam Bhattarai who're looking to cash these sentiments and there are many others sponsored by Indians e.g. Two deputy-PMs of Nepal - Gachhedar, Sitaula. What we should be asking/fighting for is FAIR/UNBIASED system without nepotism. But I know it's just a dream and is not going to happen easily. 

I totally agree with you on that the state didn't strategically made certain groups disadvantaged. They were simply busy on feeding their own greed like I gave the examples above. They don't care about their own birth place; let's forget about them thinking for the benefit of other underprevilidged. On top of that, the journalists write whatever; they only need money. Most of Janjati leaders are not different than Deuba or Pashupati shamsher, then how can federalism (ethnic or geographic) bring prosperity? As I said, theoretically it works and must work, but in Nepal, the time/cost it will take to work is more than we can afford.

Why do we never protest on these issues?
Everyone paid to buy fuel, but Nepal oil corporation took all these money and didn't pay back to Indian oil corporation. Yes they had some losses, but I highly doubt it being significant.
Melamchi were supposed to be complete years ago, but what is going on there?
Hydro-projects are never given much attention or the ones which got completed cost more than the double amount they were estimated for. Who took all these money?

Water and Energy (electricity and fuels) are the most important thing. But it seems like we are ready to give up on these and rather live on our dream-land without these basic necessities. Yes, I am also biased, and I blame maoists for the current situation in Nepal. They were the ones who made fire out of these sensitive ethnic issues and they were the one who asked for constituent assembly. Look at another pig named Mohan Baidya who never want the constitution to be made and prolong this stagnation. Why do these monkeys get so much respect everywhere they go to? In Nepal, I can totally understand. But look at the diaspora including US, so many of us are ready to lick their boots as soon as they arrive at the airports here. So the blame goes to all of us; no one is spared.

It's  vanity for people who until now have felt that they have been living under the shadow of more dominant minorities and thusly thinking that there have been  conspiratorial move by the state mechanism to continue their perceived injustice and social discrimination. In my opinion, this demand of separate states based upon ethnicity is more of a psychological victory against their perceived nemesis than strive for true identity and empowerment. Also, a state for a single ethnicity will act as insurance although they may not have their residence in that state. Even if this ridiculous demand is granted by equally imbecile leaders, the whole states are no more of transitional states of purgatory before further infighting among multi ethnic groups warrants an external intervention.

I am an advocate for decentralization of power and resources. A good system of doing so can be federalism – federal that is inclusive of all Nepalese and will foster a symbiotic relationship among the citizenry. I am trying to be optimistic although every other day despair tries to cloud my whole disposition.

 

 

When I was a kid, I got very emotional by reading  a short story ‘छिमेकी’ by Guru Prasad Mainali. Today I fear Nepal might get embroiled in ethnic clashes just like once I had a nightmare about Taslima Nasarin’s ‘Lajja.’

 

 

Nepcha1 and alternate, I wish all the sajhites and the so called netas read your post words by words. This is how we should analyze and understand the big problem rather than these little stupid stuff that most people be discussing here all the time. Hats off guys

It is clear that the present conspiracy is grand-designed by Prachanda and everyone is falling into his trap. How can the criminal like him who sucked the money out of his own cadres who sacrificed their own lives, will think better of the other janjatis or Nepal? I liked today's interview on BBC nepali service by Rabindra Misra. These dogs don't care about anything and are still playing the same game; Jhalnath khanal was asking for the resignation of PM as if this will automatically solve all the problems. 

Maoists never want the law & order or any proper system in Nepal; they want chaos in Nepal at any cost because they can survive only in these chaos. In these times, people can't think properly and would not be far-sighted; and Prachanda and other maoists know about it. Janjatis andolan came immediately after Prachanda asked for it; he wants to rule even if all nepalese are dead. What do you expect? They achieved victory by murdering thousands of people. His and his group's slogan is to divide and conquer, and so far they have succeeded in their objectives. Never had people hoped so much as this time that they will pass the constitution because of the court's ruling, but no they played the card of janjatis this time and they won.

Maoists want to attack all the entities that bind us together; that makes Nepal stronger. First they attacked police, then teachers, then journalists, then infrastructures. With the help of another crook Girija, they came to power. This time, they abolished monarchy (not that I am a fan of monarchy). Then they wanted to change the national anthem; then our national dress. This didn't satisfy them enough that they want to change the name of country. We all still have some faith on nepal army, and Prachanda played his another card with the opportunist armies like retired Khadka. People still have their last hopes in courts, and maoists have strongly opposed the judiciary power because they want to decide everything by their 'कोठे बैठक', and therefore the present game to make fun of supreme court's ruling. They have proved that they are above the supreme court and thus noone can defeat them. Meantime, we entertain ourselves by accusing each other.

Janjatis have been ignored; media is very biased. But maoists can't guide the fight against it because at least we are living in peace now, but they want nepalese to kill each other. Both groups's sentiments are high and that's what maoists wanted.

Why is sundar mani dixit advocating for jatiya rajya? Is he from janjati?

Been reading all kinds of posts today and going to bed with not a good feeling.

Nepcha's analysis is passable but alternate - i have a quick question for ya = I HATE (capital to emphasize) caste system and  that too of Nepal. From what I know kaami, damai were/are untouchables to master class of Nepal but never heard Tamangs were not allowed to enter your house? I assume you belong to so called superior caste. If I was you, I would not use lower castes etc. This is 21st century - get rid of that feeling.

Snowfed_River,

I feel bad about your interpretation of my post. If it was not clear earlier, I repeat again I too HATE ( with burning passion of 10,000 suns)  the prevaling caste system and the discrimination based upon it. 

I put the 'lower caste' inside apostrophies so as to ridicule our artificial social nomenclature. And again it's not that my friend was not welcome inside my home, which he always as; I said he hesistated because he FELT inferior. Never did I mention it's his fault or my family's - I explicitly blamed it to society which stratified the boundary of social interaction of different castes. Our generation fought this hard to delete this invisible line and form a just society and now we are going back to square one which I am lamenting in the whole post.

My whole life I never consciously identified myself to a certain caste. If it solaces you, my close friends have mostly been janajatis - not that it matters. The present scenario where we are pitting different groups is what I am protesting and I assure myself that  I'll keep on doing it no matter how it's interpreted. I am not religious but that's my DHARMA.

I am equally worried about communal violence. Your interpretation is a classic case of Poe's law.

Who makes society? Bunch of humans. Who makes laws? Bunch of humans.

Who made caste system in context of Nepal?

Enlighten me on Poe's Law.

Who made caste system in context of Nepal?
>> The same answer you had for you question : Bunch of humans.

For Poe's law I had embeded a link. To paraphase it: it says that  there is a possibility of a person falling in for a sarcastic post ridiculing a fundamental issue and taking it for real.

 Dear alternate,
   I am just kind of confused reading you post. It is very self contradictory. On one hand you say people are equal and you are able to maintain relationship with people of different social background and ethincity. But somewhere along the line you say that you are well aware of your social status. I felt it exudes sense of snob. I could easily mistake it like this

  "Oh ya he was a lower caste..but still I was his fren.. I ate in his place...but he knew he was lower caste so he didnot come to my house..And now that we r grown up..I heard my dad say he was in some rally chanting Jan jati.."

 I hope you didnot mean it this way.

 And yes I hate the way you mention "thulo khasi" Like it is some kind of class thing.

Thulo khasi is not Euphemism for Ranga..lol...I am offended..naah just kidding. becoz i love my ranga...It is indiviual's choice to eat what they want to eat or not.

 Eating a thulo khasi doesnot make someone lesser human. The way you write is very troubling. It is so paradoxical. You started eating thulo khasi becoz u wanted it..Hope you were not forced to eat that. Now that you have eaten that..u r not doing him any favour..

 And yes..u get no points for guessing my ethinicity. I havenot eaten any thulo khasi ever since i came to US. lol..

गरिबको छोराले दुई शब्द बोल्दा पनि अपाच्य हुने र अतिरन्जित हुन पर्ने. कस्तो बिडम्बना !

When I was a kid, a teacher asked me what I wanted to be when I grow up. I replied by saying a 'snob' and it came true today :) Now I can get off my high horse satisfied and maybe wear a monocle and top hat. Btw, do you know what condescending means? It means 'to look down.' Surgeon General's Warning: The international school of sarcasm suggests using a lot of smiley when sarcasm mode is on :) :) How do you like them apples? /jk  /mild rant

Dear Vasudev,

Having talked to you before, it’s a bit surprising that your deduction of my post is trivial and at worst antithetical. I am sure your intention was not to cherry pick from the whole post and analyze without the magnifying contextual glass.

I have tried my best to be consistent. My repetitive mantra has been that that we can overcome social discrimination by working together and not by dividing the country along the ethnic lines. And that social transformation requires generational changes. In order to do that I presented my anecdote in a chronological order. The act of eating ‘thulo khasi’ was a sub-conscious act of rebellion. Mind you, Khas were and still are forbidden to eat buffalo meat. And yes, it was not a favor to anyone but myself. Having broken that line and later my close friendship with people from different castes and creed, and not to mention education I had received so far made me disillusioned about the caste system prevailing in Nepal at early point of my life. As such I have I have always been voicing my support for a fair and just society and the earlier post is not an exception either.

Notwithstanding my little displeasure at your commentary, you did instigate me to ruminate about social status. For large part of my life my social status and ethnicity was a non-issue to me. If it helps in anyway: My dad is a school teacher in a government school. I have seen a fair share of wrinkles in his face struggling to educate all his children in boarding schools. Ethnicity and social status are different things but I think there is a co-relation coefficient in between them. For example an ex Lahure has a different social status than his brother who joined the Nepal Police.

हिजो सम्म कसैले मेरो परिचय माग्दा म नेपाली भन्थे. मेरो परिचय बुद्ध र सगरमाथा मात्र सिमित थिएन; मेरो परिचयमा नेवारी बाजा, थकाली खाना, मिथिला कला, गोर्खाली बिरता, सोरठी नाच, तामांग सेलो,चितवनका गैडा, हिमाली यार्चागुम्बा सम्पूर्ण नेपाल थियो. यी कुनै सापट लिएका बस्तु नभई मलाई साझा राष्ट्रिय सम्पति लाग्थ्यो र अहिले पनि लाग्छ. तर दुई चार दिन देखि अन्तरमन भित्र अनेकौ प्रस्न उब्जिरहेछन - म को हो र मेरो बास्तविक परिचय के हो भन्ने.

खोइ आझ मलाई म:म पनि खान मन छैन, भैगो बरु बर्गर नै खान्छु. यो नै मेरो जातिय संघियता  बिरुद्ध सांकेतिक बिरोध हो.

 

 Dear Alternate,

  I hope you understand I am actually criticizing the way you portray your thoughts and not the actual thoughts itself. When I just first read your experience I felt your thoughts exuded sense of self entitlement. Don't get me wrong, I read your statements over and over to make sure I understood.

 I might be obligated to give you an explanation and then I will be micro analyzing your words which I don't want to do. That will probably cause more distress to you and it is not my intention. I am sorry if you felt I was being overly critical.

 Out of all things, yes I did pull up "Thulo Khasi" out of my personal experience. It is only fair for me to share one of my own.

   I had a friend similar to you who would come to visit my house. And yes he was totally allowed in our household. We used to make momos once in a while at times when he was there. His parents used to check up on him time to time through phone calls. I noticed that he said we had khasi ko momo sometimes. One time at his home, out of naivety I told them we make ranga ko momo and not khasi ko. My friend was not happy with me, neither were their parents with him. They did not say a single word in front of me but I could read their faces. The funny explanation that my friend gave was it is still khasi, just  bigger. It is called “thulo khasi.” Honestly I did not understand at that moment, what all that fuss was about.  Time flies and we got along just after few days.  One time after exams, we decided we wanted momos to celebrate and headed to bhatti in Dillibazzar. Unfortunately, my friend’s dad was also there.  Needless to say what he was doing there.  Yes it did not have any chicken or khasi option there.

I hope I didn't call myself 'dear alternate.' Something funky happened and Vasu's comment is augmented to my last comment.

Vasu,

The term 'thulo khasi' is, in my opinion, largely innocuous and neither discriminates khasi nor buffalo. It was suppoesd to be in a jocular way.

I know where you are coming from, and again healthy criticisms are always welcome;however, in a grand scheme of things, especially when discussing about national issues (nepcha1 and I are drafting a new constitution for 'naya' Nepal :) ), a debate over petty term changes the discourse of the discussion and finally disintegrates into mud-slinging.
 
Just flogging the dead horse one more time. To each his own.

 I don't know what happened there...You liked my comment so much that u copied it into ya own post and deleted mine. heheh

 I see what you did there...Let me know, if I can be any help drafting new constitution.

I listened to the first five minutes, and he did make sense. I don't understand why non-janjatis favor the federalism and janjatis favor ethnic-based federalism. Both are traps and will make us only poorer. I agree the second option is worse than the first one, but the FIRST one (federalism - non ethnic based) is also BAD. Congress, UML and all the rest is trying to create the non-productive jobs for their cadres as you can see one prime-minister post and the increasing number of ministries were never suffficient.

 It's absurd here but all the people who believe chhetris occupy government organizations hugely can get information